(Beanman August 16, 2001 voice chat typed by Buffy_04364) Charts available at http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com beanman_1: I posted charts all day that I thought that I could start with if everyone want to start with the first one.. Buffy_04364: open Beanman pyra3 chart Buffy_04364: anchored from swing high with 22 degrees Buffy_04364: price has been traveling down in what looks like regression channels Buffy_04364: one of the principals pyra based on is square root of nine Orprepus: Buffy will type bmans comments Buffy_04364: that is what the bottom and top of the squares are (TOS) Buffy_04364: I am going to mainly use the 15M chart Buffy_04364: but will refer to the 4M for entries Buffy_04364: works in all time frames Buffy_04364: there is a reason why 4M is used Buffy_04364: has to do with the earth rotation and Don Hall prefers it for short term trading Buffy_04364: 45 bar-%K3-%D5 Stochastics and RSI3 Buffy_04364: in the chart asi, rsi and stoch are all gathered above 75 and this says most probably at a swing high in that TF Buffy_04364: asi can be downloaded from ensign site trader139: who is beanman? Buffy_04364: he has studied the book and he has taken Don Hall seminars Buffy_04364: the Pyrapoint book that is available on ensign website Buffy_04364: I am typing what Beanman says so it can be saved if you want to trader139: this seminar is a great idea. my compliments to whoever organized it. Buffy_04364: if this chart and indicators are suggesting swing low lets look for a reversal Buffy_04364: first resistance is going to be at 90 degrees at 50 and 54 Buffy_04364: if you also recall we went sideways here and created a triangle I believe in lower TF Buffy_04364: I am not thinking about going long until that is broken Buffy_04364: trend is down we are in a downward channel and we have reversed there several times Buffy_04364: if you look at bottom square from 90 to 112 Buffy_04364: the 45 degree angle that starts at 51 and goes to 90 Buffy_04364: we are on the top of it which is somewhat bullish Buffy_04364: if we break that upward angle the next objective would be down to the bottom of the square which is about 1518 hanksterr: what degrees are you using for your chart Buffy_04364: yes the 45 degree upward support line starting at 51 Buffy_04364: if you think about it we made a big move down and price moved faster than time Buffy_04364: price got ahead of time and now going sideways as time catches up Buffy_04364: pyra4 ppusa Buffy_04364: lets go to next chart pyra5 Orprepus: said 22 degree earlier Buffy_364: Beanman has his notes on the charts which helps a lot! Buffy_04364: by the way Howard refers to the vertical lines as EOS end of square dave_b_quick: 22.5 good enough? Buffy_04364: yes Buffy_04364: I know mine says six when actually 5 something Buffy_04364: last we heard was go to pyra5 Buffy_04364: still not thinking long need to break 1554 on NQ 2Devs: Beanman.. is that on a closing basis????? Buffy_04364: we could think about the short side on break or pivot on 45 degree angle Buffy_04364: or risk a few points above the 45 degree angle Buffy_04364: we also know that there is an EOS in about 30-45 minutes Buffy_04364: by the rules I am waiting for a break above horizontal line or a break of the 45 degree angle with a pivot Buffy_04364: this chart is 22.5 degrees Buffy_04364: you adjust degree size for volatility of instrument you are trading elly_34: is there a formula for that Buffy? Buffy_04364: if you look at the intersection half of 22.5 degrees is 11.25 Buffy_04364: actually this is trading in the upper half of square pjrl: how do I see this chart? I'm new Buffy_04364: so what we do next is look at the 11.25 degree chart Buffy_04364: lets look at Beanman pyra6 chart Buffy_04364: www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com Buffy_04364: for the charts elly_34: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/2001-08-16/ Buffy_04364: ensign figures it all automatically elly Buffy_04364: draw tools and click on the P Buffy_04364: anchor it at significant high / low Buffy_04364: use the edit up top to copy after highlighting it Buffy_04364: if you always use the edit then you don't get kicked out of room using the control C Buffy_04364: everyone on chart 6? Buffy_04364: the S&P is less volatile and I have it set to 22 degrees coaster_9: looks like 11 degrees Buffy_04364: notice all the indicators are all gathered above 75 back in May dave_b_quick: that's RSI and STO? Buffy_04364: notice also today the SP reversed exactly at the bottom of that square : RSI 3 , Stoch 45,3,5 and ASI Buffy_04364: Dave asi RSI and Stoch Buffy_04364: the indicators are gathered at the bottom suggesting a swing low Buffy_04364: you can also see where the RSI (red) popped back up and reversed at the top of some of the squares Buffy_04364: also notice that start at zero coming down the 45 degree line it was never ever broken to the upside Buffy_04364: meaning the trend has always been down until the 45 is broken Buffy_04364: although there have been a lot of tradable bounces Buffy_04364: the overall trend on the daily has been down Buffy_04364: lets go to chart 7 pjrl: can't you just do a descending upper trendline from the 1332 high to accomplish same thing for trend? Buffy_04364: yes the diagonals in pyra should match a TL you would normally draw or close to it I believe pjrl: Is everyone on chart 7 of the 4 min NQ Buffy_04364: keep in mind the 15M chart of the naz we were just looking at Buffy_04364: you can see the sideways congestion easier here and you can see how it was contained in between the horizontal lines Buffy_04364: 1554 and 1536 Buffy_04364: he has it marked too at the 253-265 diagonal Buffy_04364: you can see that we almost did a 2b or double bottom Buffy_04364: never had chance to go short below 1539 Buffy_04364: no that it broke above 1554 lets think about the long side Buffy_04364: also our indicators have bottomed at 1302 Buffy_04364: time that is Buffy_04364: Beanman you have to keep this room in focus Buffy_04364: also notice on the chart where we had a simultaneous break out on the 15M chart Buffy_04364: there is a note on the chart of this Buffy_04364: let’s go to chart 8 Buffy_04364: this is a nice chart Beanman Buffy_04364: lots of explanation Buffy_04364: these are the entry rules and are basically from the manual Buffy_04364: the goal is to trade in the direction of the trend and to be able to quantify your risk at any time Buffy_04364: if you look at this chart you can see the entries Buffy_04364: we only heard the first rule Buffy_04364: if you use entries 2-3-4 your risk is only a few points Buffy_04364: EOS - end of square - entry Buffy_04364: breaking of top of bottom of square in direction of trend Buffy_04364: or breaking of 45 degree angle Buffy_04364: your risk is only a few points in every trade Buffy_04364: if I wait for price to get to one of these points, eos top or bottom of square or break of 45 degree angle those are my best entries rambler_12: chart 8 Buffy_04364: we can read them on the chart Hat7: But can you see the possible entries with limited risk Buffy_04364: using pyra pt you know very quickly if you are wrong trader139: how would you set your stop on a diag line trade Buffy_04364: if you enter with these rules dave_b_quick: near the lines it's limited risk because you can set your SL on the other side of the line? Buffy_04364: you set your stop on a diagonal trade a few pts above the diagonal : yes..you can almost draw another diagonal line with an alarm in pyra donl_2: you use the 45 and 90 deg lines as s & r scottybythelake: are the blue and purple trend lines of what value setting Buffy_04364: I think it is the whole channel Dave Buffy_04364: in the book don hall suggests a stop above the diagonal a few ticks for like a week Buffy_04364: does he mention shorter term trades QSuzy: Does the tool drawing update in real time? Buffy_04364: if the 45 is support and resistance and also the horizontal lines Buffy_04364: yes suzy trader139: same stop for 15 min and 4 min? Buffy_04364: notice also how the diagonal is right beside the 20 ema on the 15M chart Buffy_04364: price not only has to go above the diagonal but has to close above it Buffy_04364: you see pokes above but not a close ispe_bc: what is fast EMA on this chart? Buffy_04364: they are running stops if it just pokes above Buffy_04364: 20 ema is fast on this chart Buffy_04364: ok lets talk about the rules for eos reset_3: on ensign windows where can I find this pyra pt ? Buffy_04364: and what a change of trend is Buffy_04364: draw tools Buffy_04364: the P Buffy_04364: 4 things can happen at EOS Buffy_04364: at the EOS is where time and price converge - gann Buffy_04364: at the EOS the trend can change down to up up to down sideways to up or down or up/ down to an excelerated up/down Buffy_04364: the eos are the vertical lines Buffy_04364: and if you look on this chart you can see trend changes at EOS Buffy_04364: if you look at a weekly chart you can pinpoint where EOS will be Buffy_04364: then you go do daily to figure what day EOS might be amfw: For EOS, is trend up/down to sideways also a possibility? Buffy_04364: then if you go to hourly you can anticipate where weekly/daily/hourly EOS might occur Orprepus: Wkly, daily, 60 or 120 min , 15, min and 4min.. part of my pretrade routine Buffy_04364: anchor on a significant high low Buffy_04364: that is what differentiates an EOS on a 15M and what might be eos on weekly, daily, etc ispe_bc: When do they next converge? Buffy_04364: it is very similar to a cluster fib - a retracement is not big deal but if happens to be through fib numbers than it means something Buffy_04364: they converge when they all hit eos at the same time Buffy_04364: you can see on this 15m chart it broke above resistance at 1554 and is now traveling with the 45 degree upward channel Beanman: go to chart 9 Orprepus: nice chart Buffy_04364: these are great charts Beanman : thks Buffy_04364: here I have pointed out some of the possible entry points using the previous rules Orprepus: thx you for doing this - I know it takes time to type up those notes Buffy_04364: we all appreciate the time you put into this Buffy_04364: I have also shown you the objective Buffy_04364: if you are short the top of square going down next objective is 45 degree angle Buffy_04364: second objective is bottom of the square Buffy_04364: in the first example you may want to take profits at the bottom of the square QSuzy: Beanman.....Ensign seems to automatically input degrees....is this something one should tinker with? Buffy_04364: properties window suzy Buffy_04364: is where degrees are changed QSuzy: thks trader139: how long do u stay with this anchor Buffy_04364: Dave can you pull these charts and put them on website for future reference? Buffy_04364: if today is swing low I will reanchor pyrapoint Buffy_04364: go to chart pyra10 Buffy_04364: when ever I go from swing high to swing low I reanchor Tom_B: is 15 min the primary timeframe ? Buffy_04364: tom this works in any TF dave_b_quick: ya, we can put these on a pyrapoint page Buffy_04364: thanks Dave Buffy_04364: after reanchored at zero after the 12th bar there is an eos and a change in trend and price is traveling up the 45 degree highway Buffy_04364: you can also see a couple of pullbacks to the horizontal line 1556 and your risk was just a few points below that Buffy_04364: and now you can see we ended the day on EOS Buffy_04364: we also remember after we went through the top of square next objective is top of square and where you tighten your stop Buffy_04364: if I sold I would wait for a pullback now to the 45 degree angle Buffy_04364: if I go long my risk would just be a few points below the 4 degree Buffy_04364: he said he repositions at swing high and low tom Buffy_04364: go to chart 11 hilander_3: Tom, this is a 4min chart Tom_B: ok Buffy_04364: you can see pyrapoint works in any TF Buffy_04364: however this is traveling up the 4 degree line Tom_B: can the different timeframe pyra's be overlapped on 1 chart / Buffy_04364: but the pullback stops at the upward support line on the 15 minute chart Buffy_04364: no they can't tom Buffy_04364: retracement in a 4M are actually pullbacks to support lines in the 15M chart Buffy_04364: so if you are trading a 4M chart you probably wouldn't want to go short when it broke TOS around 1558 Orprepus: agree Buffy_04364: I actually think this might be a good combination to use with retro ppusa: The default setting on Ensign I just got was 22 when attached to 15 min. How do I decide whether to use 11 or 22? Buffy_04364: you have to get used to adjusting the degrees based on how stock is moving and the volatility Buffy_04364: 22 for 15M chart and 11.5 for 4M and 2.8 on 1M or 2M chart Orprepus: degrees that is Buffy_04364: if on a time line also should be looking for change of trend hanksterr: please give all three settings for STO dave_b_quick: fast RSI setting? donl_2: THANKS VERY INTERESTING Buffy_04364: I highly suggest the book rambler_12: no questions here but thanx-- very educational Buffy_04364: you did a great job Beanman!!!!!!!! jazzallnite: thnx...very good QSuzy: Have you had good success with this tool? ppusa: thanks Beanman. amfw: Thank-you Beanman! Buffy_04364: going back to chart 7 StefanSiara: what is the name of the book? Buffy_04364: pyrapoint by don hall Buffy_04364: available on ensign website StefanSiara: thanks StefanSiara: OK I am on chart 7 Buffy_04364: cheapest there hanksterr: what is %k and %d for the 45 bars Beanman: Hank, 45 bar stochk=3, d=5 hanksterr: ty Buffy_04364: I see what you mean Roger by the nice thrust that follows those arrows Orprepus: roger ask question again : Buffy, the red arrow show where stoch,asi and RSI were below 25 Buffy_04364: how are the arrows generated on chart 7 Buffy_04364: ahh ok : drawing tool the arrow Buffy_04364: let us know when you figure out how to do it roger :-) QSuzy: Did Beanman ever say what asi is? I was out of the room for a couple minutes.... Buffy_04364: color bands might be the way to go maybe Buffy_04364: is can be downloaded from the ensign website QSuzy: Accumulative Swing Index by Well Wilder... Buffy_04364: it is an espl study Orprepus: is there a setting for ASI Orprepus: NO.. Orprepus: thxs - stoch setting for all time frames Orprepus: I actually have an ESPL study that tells me when all three are above 75 or below 25 works in all TF's Orprepus: Pd Kimball $50 Buffy_04364: it is incorporated with the asi espl? Orprepus: Yes.. has to be Orprepus: cheap Beanman: I am trying just standardized on 3 indicators and Pyra Orprepus: KISS wins all the time Buffy_04364: kiss principle trader139: bman any comment on using tick charts with pyra? trader139: work great except that you lose time element Orprepus: similar concept with PNF because PNF uses 45 degree angles for support resistance hanksterr: Beanman, can you post a chart of the alerts to get those red arrows Orprepus: had book first or meeting with don hall? hanksterr: this was fantastic, ty trader139: thank u bman. I hope u get lots of beans to count! QSuzy: thanks Beanman......bye guys......hasta manana... Buffy_04364: yes it is Buffy_04364: rsi3 2Devs: Beanman Say I want to thank you for the effort you put into the charts. And the time you spent explaining. 2Devs: Yes.. what is cool that a fast RSI, with slow Stoch and ASI isolates swings Buffy_04364: ditto dev 2Devs: It helped alot! Answered some questions dave_b_quick: thanks much, a glimmer of light here Buffy_04364: yes your presentation was very thorough dave_b_quick: often the RSI pops up , pyra his support/resistance and use RSI for entry ppusa: Yes, thank you. Your comment on adjusting the degrees should help me alot. NADOMED: is that a 3 min RSI bars or nim's Buffy_04364: sure answers anyone who is wondering about it and whether to get book or not Buffy_04364: 45 bars roger Orprepus: it is in the notes Buffy_04364: %K is 3 ppusa: Book talks about RSI popping up on retracements... Buffy_04364: %D is 5 Orprepus: see ya ppusa Buffy_04364: night ppusa Beanman: Thanks all.. I like pyra because you quickly know if you are wrong and fighting the trend... scottybythelake: the charts and script will be archived??? Buffy_04364: yes Dave is going to put them up on a page scottybythelake: thx all Buffy_04364: so night all and see you tomorrow Orprepus: good job typing Buffy Buffy_04364: thanks O Orprepus: Thanks Buffy Buffy_04364: night Buffy_04364: going to leave this open so type anything else you might want included in the script to be posted to the website Buffy_04364: will work as long as DSL doesn't go down Orprepus: bman - stoch settings the same for all time frames? Orprepus: yes Orprepus: degrees for higher time frames - weekly daily 120M 60M Roger Schelling: What is the ASI? Roger Schelling: Welles Wilder Accumulative Swing Index trader139: bman is there any point to using 15m 45m and 135m which are all multiples of 3 or should u stagger the time frames? donl_2: TRADERS I ENJOYED IT, GN Orprepus: bman - why 15m and not 16M?? Beanman:I am sticking to wkly, daily, and perhaps 120 to just know if there are any EOS coming into play that day.. Beanman: And then during the day 4 min, 15min and maybe 60 or daily Beanman: 15 or 16.. I may try 16.. but no real difference that I know of Beanman: There are some Gann reason as to which numbers to use.. scottybythelake: how many pts/wk has this been generating scottybythelake: because this is based on square of 9 Orprepus: I have been using 4, 16, 60 120 and sometimes look at 32 trader139: if u hit a diag on 60 min and horizontal on 15min is that a confirmation? Beanman: trader 139 would have to see it.. Orprepus: I was thinking multiple of 4 for time frames Orprepus: really like the 120m have for a long time Orprepus: You always want to trade the square and triangle you are in.. Orprepus: Yes 120 min is good Orprepus: just cuts down on the noise ˆ: I also anchor based on the significant high/low for that timeframe Orprepus: daily I have anchored for several months... 15min for several days. possibly changing for today Orprepus: 4min I change almost every day Orprepus: did you see my chart from yesterday 120M NDX2 Beanman: I the seminar I attend with Don Hall , unlike the book, he now reanchors the small TF on every swing/wave Beanman: I will check it out. Orprepus: did you get the book first and than the seminar? Beanman: Degrees also change.. can be 11degrees going down.. then retrace / consolidate at 5.6 degrees... Orprepus: Yes.. Beanman: Studied the book for several weeks. and also talked to Don a lot on phone and email before attending Orprepus: He is a great guy, like Teresa Lo Orprepus: great might do the same this PP seems to resonate with me Beanman: If you ever read any Gann stuff, they talk about Harmonics and vibrations.. that is what you see in PP, the price "vibrates or oscillated up/down the channel amfw: Is the criteria for a new swing on the short TF all three indicators hitting 27/75 and , if so, do you use the same criteria for the longer TF's? amfw: Gann also thought time was more important than price.... Hence the EOS is very important, higher TF' rule on EOS amfw: Remember , Like Elliott Wave, you can have waves within waves.. nothing goes straight up or down... Beanman: below 25 or above 75.. Don calls them his barometer.. He still looks for confirmation with Pyra Beanman: The indicator show you the past.. Pyra suggest where it may go in the future.. with a way to limit your risk Beanman: indicators = rear view mirror,.. Pyra is looking out the front windshield Orprepus: like the steps - the market does not like to take big jumps it tries to have some order in chaos - just look at the daily every couple of weeks we take a jump and skip a couple of step and the market makes sure to fill in the step Orprepus: done for the day closing up shop until tomorrow - see ya Beanman: Orprepus. with PP, you have to trade the TF you are most comfortable with and with you risk tolerance.. Futures require so much precision..with PP you can scalp on the lower TF's with tight stops or trade the higher TF with wider stops : The goal is to always now where you are at in the market / trade... so yes you can go long in the 4min at support, even though the 15 min and perhaps others are in a downtrend, but you odds are lower.. elly_34: does don hall have a website? Beanman: No, But he has a bunch of QA and FAQ at Tradersworld.com They are the publishers of his book. I am not sure that is the right URL.. so do a search elly_34: ty Beanman: Also, there have been several articles in the previous Ensign monthly newsletters Beanman: And there is a Pyrapoint yahoo group Beanman: I highly recommend the book.. Beanman: For any successful trading plan/strategy you need a trading plan with rules for entry/exit, a minimum of indicators, software to support it (Ensign and Pyra), and most important an Edge ( from the book Trading in the zone) elly_34: I’m probably asking what has been asked, but I had to be away from here so pls bear with me.....how much does the pyrapoint factor into your trading decision Beanman? Beanman: With Pyra and the rules for entry you can isolate some of the emotions because shows you were to enter and if you do , where you are wrong elly_34: so rules with pyra can be more mechanical? Beanman: Yes...Study the rules I posted... and visualize on the charts where you could have entered.. with the trend.. of the next higher TF elly_34: are your rules in this chat or posted elsewhere on the site? Beanman: If you entered against the trend.. and price goes above/below the top/bottom of the square against you, you are wrong.. Beanman: If it goes above/below the 45 against you are wrong .. Beanman: No matter what you think, hope, pray, what CNBC says. trader139: for daily, weekly do u use ES (24 hr trade) or day session only (SP) Beanman: Don Hall , the author suggest just the day session.. Beanman: not enough volume during the night trader139: foxy this presentation will be archived at dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com Beanman: Good night al.. dinnertime.. elly_34: thank you so much elly_34: nite all Roger Schelling: Thanks Beanman much appreciated luv-to-trade: how did retrotrader end up today? I had to be gone all day reset_3: that any one know the book that Beanman was talking ? I get the author Don Hall but not the name of the book scottybythelake: yahoo pyrapoint links http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=pyrapoint&hc=0&hs=0 scottybythelake: more pyrapoint http://tradersworld.com/ hanksterr: name of the book is Pyrapoint reset_3: thanks handk and scotty scottybythelake: TraderWorld is quite a repository of info Beanman: Scotty, go to the pyrapoint QA.. also some past articles in previous issues that you may find online at Tradersworld Beanman: PYRAPOINT http://www.tradersworld.com/PYRAPOINT Username: don Password: hall Beanman: FYI, You can all try the above to enter the pyrapoint sections at TradersWorld ü  & ^ D