Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni. Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk. El_Cazador: Does the pre-market volume seem exceptionally low? El_Cazador: Pearl Harbour Day? tomsurf: El- yes Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== subtvshow: test tomsurf: Mich. Sentiment coming out at 9:45est subtvshow: k Buffy_04364: Morning all jimmer49: Hi buffy Buffy_04364: Hi jimmer Buffy_04364: been a while Buffy_04364: hope things going well for you jimmer49: Watched band traders for a while jimmer49: going well thanks El_Cazador: is there an indicator for "fair market value" subtvshow: test dave_b_quik: cazador, FMV is calculated according to a formula and posted every day at several websites (09:39 AM) tomsurf: I think H L Camp has a ggod site for the FMV Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (09:41 AM) El_Cazador: yeah... but doesn't it change real time like everything else? (09:41 AM) dave_b_quik: no, it doesn't change that fast (09:42 AM) El_Cazador: thinkinking about arb between the NQ and FMV (09:42 AM) El_Cazador: heard it was important on the floors (09:42 AM) dave_b_quik: i think FMV decreases every day by an amount that reflects one days interest (09:43 AM) pete77_1: IB has an arbitrage meter, but I don't see it on the new work station (09:43 AM) jimmer49: I could never figure out how to use that arb meter (09:44 AM) dave_b_quik: so FMV is the theoretical amount that the futures should be above the cash index (09:44 AM) dave_b_quik: so it's just an amount to add to the cash index for each day (09:44 AM) El_Cazador: yes (09:45 AM) dave_b_quik: i think you'd have to be real big to take advantage of it (09:46 AM) El_Cazador: Don Bright (owner of Bright Trading) mentioned it in the elitetrader board... says they have there prop traders watching it (09:46 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, they go in for that kinda stuff (09:47 AM) El_Cazador: if the NQ pops and fmv doesn't follow NQ is going drop. (09:47 AM) El_Cazador: thanks (09:47 AM) tomsurf: ya the big boys have big computers that take advantage of any imbalance between the cash and futures in a split second. (09:47 AM) dave_b_quik: my friend recently took the Bright course for $1,500 or something like that, and he already gave up on it and is trading the mini's instead (09:48 AM) mgkrebs: this market is kind of bonkers all of a sudden (09:49 AM) Buffy_04364: finding anthrax in the feds reserve mail isn't going to help (09:49 AM) El_Cazador: consum sent report is good (09:49 AM) dave_b_quik: the market may be immune to anthrax by now (09:49 AM) El_Cazador: really? (09:50 AM) mgkrebs: is there anthrax news? my tv's busted. Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== (09:51 AM) goh_3: important supp from the 60 min EMA 20 ES and Dow Paltalk: Press the INVITE button NOW! Get your friends in on the fun! Invite them to join us on PalTalk today! (09:53 AM) robinhood14: is there voice chat in here, I can't hear anything (09:53 AM) tkay_1: anyone trading retro? (09:53 AM) tkay_1: no voice during market hours robinh (09:54 AM) robinhood14: OK thanks, My first time on Pal talk, (09:54 AM) Buffy_04364: welcome to the room robin (09:54 AM) robinhood14: tks (09:54 AM) Buffy_04364: we type so traders can keep focused on trades and then catch up later with anything said (09:54 AM) dave_b_quik: thanks for reminding me tkay, looks like retro might be onto something (09:54 AM) Buffy_04364: that goes for taking a break too (09:55 AM) El_Cazador: Dave, do you use bline, retro and smax at times? (09:57 AM) dave_b_quik: i keep an eye on retro, am still figuring out b-line, and haven't gotten up to speed with smax yet, but I take whatever trade looks good (09:58 AM) ppusa1: osold (10:00 AM) ppusa1: scalped a short ... don't know if osold enough to take out high but flat for now Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (10:01 AM) El_Cazador: wierd... indicators going from oversold to overbought but very little movement in price (10:02 AM) dave_b_quik: could mean a high CSI (10:02 AM) dave_b_quik: Chop Suey Index (10:02 AM) tomsurf: LOL (10:03 AM) El_Cazador: ha (10:03 AM) mgkrebs: we have pretty narrow bars for this early in the day (10:04 AM) jimmer49: Scalp day today I think (10:04 AM) ppusa1: probably make a new high (10:04 AM) jimmer49: But not in a rush to go anywhere (10:04 AM) ppusa1: waiting for definite HOD here (10:04 AM) El_Cazador: here comes the 10am reversal....it'll pop 1.5 points! (10:05 AM) ppusa1: no evidence yet that it will make a new high just watching (10:06 AM) ppusa1: 30 point PnF reversed this am (10:07 AM) dave_b_quik: long way down to the daily 20EMA (10:07 AM) ppusa1: still looking for more consolidation and more downside reversals from close to here (10:07 AM) ppusa1: close as in near not the daily close (10:08 AM) ppusa1: since last night's HOD was so near yesterday's HOD i am wondering if the nq will have an outside day then sell off monday...ie run the high stops (10:09 AM) ppusa1: going back to sleep for awhile (10:09 AM) rich012: good idea (10:11 AM) Buffy_04364: higher low on the 150T and 300T Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (10:14 AM) goh_3: theres much supp from the hourly charts here (10:14 AM) Buffy_04364: tks goh (10:14 AM) Buffy_04364: could be a triangle (10:15 AM) tkay_1: higher low on 1min (10:15 AM) goh_3: Tick and Trin arent that bad Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== Paltalk: You DO have a choice! Buy bannerless to end your popup blues today! Click OPTIONS on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Only $14.95 a year! That's less than THREE CENTS per day! WOW!!! (10:27 AM) jimmer49: very unusual to see bands narrower on 5 min than on lower tf Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (10:34 AM) rich012: Are there any volunteers to either buy or sell a couple thousand contracts to get this baby moving? Either direction is OK with me. Just get it moving somewhere! (10:35 AM) tomsurf: rich- boring for sure (10:35 AM) jimmer49: smax had up signal 15 min ago, but still going nowhere (10:36 AM) Buffy_04364: tks jimmer (10:36 AM) Buffy_04364: looks like I will miss whatever happens (10:36 AM) subtvshow: qqq-* (10:36 AM) jimmer49: u leaving buff? (10:37 AM) Buffy_04364: yep in about 30 minutes (10:38 AM) tomsurf: where ya going again Buffy? (10:38 AM) jimmer49: If you are going shopping I can send you my Christmas wish list (10:38 AM) Buffy_04364: :-) (10:39 AM) Buffy_04364: am picking up my grandson on the way down - bet his is longer than yours and not as expensive LOL (10:39 AM) tomsurf: Sox doesn't want to crack so far (10:40 AM) google_2: morning (10:41 AM) tomsurf: gm google (10:41 AM) Buffy_04364: morning Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (10:41 AM) Buffy_04364: guess that wasn't a good joke jimmer sorry (10:41 AM) rich012: I came home from shopping to trade and now it is doing nothing. Should have stayed out longer. (10:42 AM) google_2: friday is always dull (10:42 AM) Buffy_04364: that is why I made the boys postpone this until today :-) (10:42 AM) El_Cazador: lol (10:42 AM) google_2: I went long, pray for me (10:42 AM) goh_3: it wants to go up but (10:42 AM) Buffy_04364: pyra trying so hard to rally here (10:42 AM) google_2: :-) (10:43 AM) Buffy_04364: tempted but chopping around the 50/200 ema (10:43 AM) Buffy_04364: plus it is getting too late (10:43 AM) rich012: yeah, last Friday was a narrow range too. Just about 25 points (10:43 AM) goh_3: higher low on the 5 min is in imo (10:44 AM) google_2: take a look at the pattern (10:44 AM) El_Cazador: google is right (10:45 AM) Ensign Software: Happy Birthday Buffy!!!! I assume the birthday lunch is for your birthday and not the boy's. (10:45 AM) google_2: don't really know, but I looked at yesterday's hi at noon till this morning's low and looks like a double symmetrical decline (10:45 AM) google_2: which usually leads to a bump on the long side (10:47 AM) google_2: 1 car out +7, 1 car left at b/even (10:50 AM) rich012: Nice google (10:50 AM) rich012: Double sym decline? Where'd you learn that terminology? Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== Paltalk: To visit our sponsors, click on banners! (10:52 AM) google_2: picked it up from a very good trader on another chat - he used to come up with all these weird patterns but they worked amazingly! (10:54 AM) google_2: playing chicken, out +10 (10:54 AM) El_Cazador: where'd it trigger the buy at 1700? (10:54 AM) El_Cazador: guessnot (10:55 AM) dave_b_quik: hey, what does it mean when after 1.5 hours we're still inside of the range of the first 3m bar? (10:55 AM) El_Cazador: CSI Dave (10:55 AM) dave_b_quik: i think so (10:55 AM) goh_3: es stopped below the 15 min EMA so we are cought between the 15 and 60 min EMQAs (10:55 AM) goh_3: EMAs (10:56 AM) El_Cazador: gotta go to work so I can continue to afford trading. ;) (10:56 AM) dave_b_quik: chao, cazador (10:57 AM) El_Cazador: have a good weekend (11:00 AM) google_2: and of course it takes off after I exit (11:00 AM) google_2: lol Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (11:05 AM) tkay_1: heh dont be sorry google i think most ppl made nothing so far today (11:05 AM) alipang: gm all (11:06 AM) dave_b_quik: gm (11:06 AM) google_2: I'm not especially on a friday (11:06 AM) google_2: good morning alipang Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (11:13 AM) google_2: if market reacts negatively to this morning's report, it would be the first time in a while that it didn't discount bad news (11:13 AM) jimmer49: 44 people in here looking for a clue (11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: ok guys have to get out of here (11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: make sure to catch whatever happens IF it does (11:13 AM) google_2: does this mean the market has priced in all bad news? (11:13 AM) google_2: anyone? (11:13 AM) tomsurf: Buffy- have a great day! :-) (11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: will be back in room 6pm at the latest (11:13 AM) dave_b_quik: have fun Buffy, eat some cake for me (11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: will do tom (11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: for sure (11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: they better not have cake (11:14 AM) google_2: take care buffy (11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL (11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: going to leave room up (12:58 PM) SP Steve: adding at 75 stop if not stopped out first (12:58 PM) SP Steve: I can't believe I have in a 5 point stop (12:58 PM) subtvshow: im cinfused ppusa (12:59 PM) ppusa1: talk after market close maybe (12:59 PM) ppusa1: i can post but can't right now (01:00 PM) subtvshow: ok (01:01 PM) SP Steve: oops (01:01 PM) SP Steve: out (01:01 PM) ppusa1: i have noticed 6 point PnF works extremely well last couple days at the bottoms and tops. most of you have been hearing my calls on the 6. They have been coinciding with the 15 minute bar ranges and number of bars in either direction. Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== Paltalk: An Instant Dating session has just started. If interested, come join one of the lobbies in the Instant Dating catg now. (01:04 PM) SP Steve: I didn't have a redline sell on that one, but it is set up now for another sell if it happens (01:04 PM) ppusa1: PnF says you can stay short until over 87 (01:04 PM) SP Steve: pp....do you do the Point and Figure by hand? (01:05 PM) ppusa1: ensign (01:05 PM) SP Steve: ok (01:06 PM) ppusa1: hour chart double bottom looks like it will break and combined with PnF, etc., ithere is a good chance of another wave down.i cannot guarantee it (01:06 PM) SP Steve: Redline sell set-up... second one of the day... Sell at 168100 stop (01:07 PM) ppusa1: my charts would confirm (01:08 PM) ppusa1: personally i would rather try to buy the low of the next break 'cos another leg down is iffy scenario (01:08 PM) ppusa1: most setups are not perfect (01:08 PM) dave_b_quik: 36 point range so far today (01:09 PM) dave_b_quik: makes a nice downbar on the daily (01:09 PM) ppusa1: this sell is close to perfect and hopefully this insight is helping (01:09 PM) ppusa1: between steve's redline and my bull#$#% someone should be able to learn something (01:10 PM) SP Steve: lol (01:10 PM) SP Steve: 1684 stops (01:10 PM) SP Steve: add at 1677 if not hit first (01:10 PM) SP Steve: short one unit at 1681 (01:12 PM) ppusa1: my 10 and 15 point PnF's say bounce so either from here or another leg down (01:12 PM) SP Steve: yep Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (01:12 PM) SP Steve: I should really reverse if this gets stopped out, but I don't like trading against the trend (01:13 PM) ppusa1: the ideal situation would be me long with a stop and you short with a stop (01:13 PM) SP Steve: lol (01:13 PM) ppusa1: can always buy a swing low if get stopped (01:13 PM) SP Steve: both of us get hit (01:13 PM) SP Steve: yep (01:13 PM) ppusa1: probably (01:13 PM) subtvshow: open two accounrts and box it ppusa (01:14 PM) SP Steve: There ya go (01:15 PM) SP Steve: and there I go (01:15 PM) tkay_1: who says it wont whipsaw back:) (01:15 PM) ppusa1: no one (01:16 PM) ppusa1: 87 is buy (01:16 PM) subtvshow: thats what get me all the time kay, those dam whipsaws, i dont know how to set stops well enough (01:16 PM) ppusa1: i would only buy a pb, not enter at 87 (01:16 PM) SP Steve: You know, another reason I add to winnere is that I am wrong a lot.... But on the three trades I have done today, I lost 5, lost 3 just now, but made 35 points on the winner (01:17 PM) subtvshow: so ppusa, you would wait for the break of 87, which is your confirmstion to start buyiong and then you wait for the pb and buy? (01:17 PM) ppusa1: yes (01:17 PM) subtvshow: and if tehre is never pull back, you just stay oout of the move? (01:18 PM) ppusa1: depending on whether the market ran to my target or pulled back first (01:19 PM) ppusa1: correct sub (01:19 PM) subtvshow: so if the breakout is 87, and your target is 1700, it breaks 87 and next thing you know its trading at 94, what woudl you do? (01:19 PM) ppusa1: although most would add like steve does (01:19 PM) subtvshow: i dont plan on adding right now (01:19 PM) SP Steve: pp.. That is a common trading floor style (01:19 PM) ppusa1: look for another trade or??? (01:19 PM) SP Steve: your style that is (01:21 PM) subtvshow: loks like the sp is breaking out (01:21 PM) dave_b_quik: NQ5m testing a TL Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. (01:21 PM) ppusa1: i am going to say something as fast and clearly as i can 'cos i need to watch more. 2 styles, add like steve or if you are really sure of move, get in get confirmation next pull back or rally add like crazy and instead of where steve would add Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== (01:22 PM) ppusa1: if Steve was really gung ho about his move, and added at swing highs, he would have made 3 times $$$ (01:23 PM) ppusa1: qualifier is ya better be right (01:23 PM) SP Steve: That helps (01:23 PM) subtvshow: so its like pyramiding ? (01:24 PM) ppusa1: reason is going with trend most of move is in direction of trend and get in at beginning makes most $$$ (01:24 PM) ppusa1: both are pyramiding (01:25 PM) SP Steve: I pyramid, yes sub (01:25 PM) ppusa1: i see Steve adding to close to the end of a lot of trends. this isn't bashing it's his style. still works and he made more than i have today. but leave the door open to adding at counter trend swings (01:26 PM) subtvshow: i am not sure how you define these swing lows and highs maybe you can explain later (01:26 PM) SP Steve: I do that all the time... I bet I sell most lows and Buy most highs (01:27 PM) ppusa1: buy a pullback, sell a rally rather than going with the break (01:27 PM) ppusa1: like that grail i did yesterday (01:27 PM) SP Steve: But by the time I sell those lows, I HAVE to already short and making money (01:27 PM) SP Steve: and the reverse on the buys (01:27 PM) SP Steve: pp, i am not saying one is better than the other (01:28 PM) SP Steve: just different (01:28 PM) ppusa1: if i had bot the break it was good for 6 points only...instead i bot the pb and went from 25 to 36. and that's only if you got the absolute high on the buy of the break (01:28 PM) ppusa1: 2 different ways, both are good (01:29 PM) SP Steve: On the only winner I had today, I sold close to the lows too and still made 35 points (01:29 PM) subtvshow: ppusa looking for a long now that 87 is brokern? (01:29 PM) ppusa1: yes but once in if you had added at the swing highs of the rally's instead of the bar breaks then what? (01:30 PM) rich012: ppusa, using the grail yest as an example, do you enter on a limit price or wait for the market to turn your way and then enter on a stop ot market order? (01:30 PM) ppusa1: sub i spent to much time typing will look for next setup (01:30 PM) subtvshow: ok i will akls later (01:31 PM) dave_b_quik: ppusa, when you sell the swing highs, how, where, and when do you place the order? (01:31 PM) ppusa1: rich yesterday i wanted 2. when i saw i was probably not going to get it i went market (01:31 PM) ppusa1: wanted 22 (01:31 PM) rich012: so it had turned already? (01:31 PM) rich012: but sometimes you will enter with a limit order? (01:32 PM) ppusa1: i went market and got 25 (01:32 PM) ppusa1: nq was just sitting there (01:32 PM) ppusa1: sometimes Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (01:33 PM) ppusa1: save yourself 10 bucks and maybe miss the move dependins on setup (01:33 PM) rich012: was that a buy near 12:45 yest u are talking about? (01:33 PM) ppusa1: right before HOD (01:34 PM) SP Steve: This is a real struggle of a rally, i will say that (01:35 PM) ppusa1: yea the chart is to narrow for me to get excited about any major rally (01:35 PM) rich012: yeah, volume is real low (01:36 PM) ppusa1: market was oversold so no surprise. i was looking for 10 to 16 point bounce. since nq bounced 10, and doesn't look like any major move, i missed the low and i will wait (01:38 PM) ppusa1: i am looking for a 15 point rally and a 75 point drop. now if someone will just tell me which will hit first, i would appreciate it. i missed the oversold and it is not worth (yet) chasing imo here 'cos got the majority of the move i expected (01:38 PM) SP Steve: sell and play a 16 point stop! (01:40 PM) ppusa1: if i was going to sell now i would probably wait for 95 area. 6 tick says pb to 83 which we hit (01:40 PM) SP Steve: I am stuck right now between the 3 and 7 minute charts... the 3 has a sell at 84 stop, but 7 has not set-up yet (01:40 PM) ppusa1: i could have sold the 87 because at the time nq hit 89, the 6 point said 83. (01:41 PM) SP Steve: 88 was a 50 rsi on the 7 minute (01:41 PM) SP Steve: I get too excited when the market goes down.... (01:41 PM) ppusa1: this is an example as to why i do not use buy stops (01:41 PM) ppusa1: but (01:42 PM) ppusa1: use buy stops when you think there will be a breakout (01:42 PM) ppusa1: this move over 87 was not like some big breakout Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (01:42 PM) ppusa1: if you look at every bar break, 90 % have retracement above the break (01:42 PM) SP Steve: Selling 81 stop (01:43 PM) SP Steve: Just one (01:43 PM) ppusa1: or below the break as the case may be (01:43 PM) SP Steve: protective stop will ve 87.50 (01:43 PM) SP Steve: yikes (01:43 PM) ppusa1: breaking triangles is a good example of when to use stop entries. (01:44 PM) ppusa1: this is where i would buy if i wasn't typing so much (01:44 PM) SP Steve: lol (01:44 PM) ppusa1: other reason is doesn't look that great (01:45 PM) ppusa1: the move to 87 hit some down trending ma's (01:46 PM) 9r: 1157.00 is the buy on the es with a very tight stop Paltalk: Are banners a bummer and popups a pain? Cure your banner blues NOW for $14.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then select Bannerless PalTalk to subscribe now! Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== (01:54 PM) ppusa1: obviously some of this stuff i decide as i see the setups (01:55 PM) ppusa1: i didn't like the looks of the low yet the market was oversold and i didn't like the rally 'cos then it looked overbot rather than change of trend (01:55 PM) scylnx: trin matches hod 1.27 (01:55 PM) ppusa1: n says 3 point bounce then lower??? (01:55 PM) SP Steve: I agree... It is tough to set EXACTLY how to do a trade because there are some variables on every trade (01:56 PM) ppusa1: PnF says 3 point... (01:56 PM) SP Steve: add 75 stops (01:57 PM) ppusa1: i have nq low at 1.68. did you catch it? (01:57 PM) ppusa1: obviously a misquote (01:57 PM) ppusa1: ok here a bounce to 80 3 point (01:58 PM) SP Steve: I have an order to cover there pp (01:58 PM) SP Steve: lol (01:58 PM) SP Steve: stops are down to 83.50 (01:58 PM) ppusa1: this should go 'cos no PnF's need to reverse (01:59 PM) ppusa1: had 3 point bounce before the break so should run as now sell signal all charts including the 10 point (02:00 PM) SP Steve: yikes... (02:00 PM) ppusa1: now anyone here question the accuracy of PnF WHEN COMBINED IN THE DIRECTIOMN OF THE TREND (02:00 PM) ppusa1: WHO OS YOUR DADDY (02:00 PM) SP Steve: 1670 is some support... also 1664 is limit down by the way, I think (02:00 PM) ppusa1: OS = IS (02:01 PM) ppusa1: i am soooo good when i am not trading (02:01 PM) SP Steve: lol (02:02 PM) tkay_1: heh steve you were wrong about limit down last time, better check:) (02:02 PM) SP Steve: stops down to 74 now (02:02 PM) SP Steve: lol (02:02 PM) SP Steve: ok Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (02:03 PM) SP Steve: LIMIT NOW! (02:03 PM) tkay_1: what if limitdown happened right this second (02:03 PM) tkay_1: all trading ceases? (02:03 PM) tkay_1: its like a halt for stocks? (02:04 PM) tomsurf: LD is now (02:04 PM) subtvshow: they should parade bears through wall street today instead of bulls like they did the other day (02:04 PM) SP Steve: Limit ask! (02:04 PM) tkay_1: ok so what happens (02:04 PM) ppusa1: not stocks (02:04 PM) SP Steve: I really wish I had more than one add on (02:04 PM) goh_3: wait 5 or 15 min? (02:04 PM) ppusa1: nothing watch the nas index (02:04 PM) ppusa1: 10 minutes after locking (02:05 PM) tkay_1: what if im in a positon (02:05 PM) tkay_1: can i get out? (02:05 PM) ppusa1: nas is down 56. watch it and see if it changes will tell you where the futures will go (02:05 PM) ppusa1: cannot buy (02:05 PM) ppusa1: sorry cannot sell (02:05 PM) rich012: what is the next limit (just in case)? (02:06 PM) ppusa1: 133 contracts in front of you (02:06 PM) ppusa1: 90 something (02:06 PM) ppusa1: i think (02:06 PM) tkay_1: so how long will this ld last (02:06 PM) ppusa1: cally ur broker (02:06 PM) goh_3: I just took a look at the SPX daily the breakout of Wed turned out to be a trap (02:06 PM) ppusa1: 10 minurtes (02:06 PM) tkay_1: and then trading reopens as usual? (02:06 PM) ppusa1: potential target 1650 (02:06 PM) ppusa1: yes (02:07 PM) ppusa1: if nq bounces off limit which it usually does you can sell (02:07 PM) ppusa1: only 60 contracts (02:07 PM) ppusa1: 2 (02:07 PM) ppusa1: unlocked (02:07 PM) ppusa1: should go lower anyway (02:08 PM) SP Steve: If anyone else is short here, you could place stops now at 1667.50 (02:08 PM) ppusa1: no to close (02:09 PM) ppusa1: 68 would only be 3 point bounce (02:09 PM) ppusa1: 67 (02:09 PM) SP Steve: My stops are still at 73.50 (02:10 PM) goh_3: just very oversold (02:10 PM) tkay_1: does after a certain # of ld's trading cease for the day? (02:10 PM) ppusa1: no (02:10 PM) ppusa1: no limits in last 1/2 hour (02:11 PM) SP Steve: yep (02:11 PM) ppusa1: 1652.5 was gap up low (02:12 PM) ppusa1: oversold but could get there Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (02:13 PM) SP Steve: yep (02:13 PM) SP Steve: adding now at new lows again (02:13 PM) SP Steve: short one at 81, one at 75 (02:13 PM) ppusa1: Steve, ya want to be famous? Add here with stop inbetween the two at b/e (02:14 PM) SP Steve: I am already famous... (02:14 PM) SP Steve: he he (02:14 PM) tomsurf: ;-) (02:14 PM) ppusa1: situation now kinda oversold but if nq wasn't so oversold, and someone were to add here, make much more than adding at new low (02:15 PM) SP Steve: How about both? (02:15 PM) ppusa1: if Steve were to add here and average out the cost of all his positins and place a stop there, could you imagine how much he would make (02:15 PM) SP Steve: This is the way i look at it... and this will sound strange..... The lower i sell it the better, and that is simply because it means i am making more on the existing shorts (02:16 PM) ppusa1: yes, this is not the best example 'cos could be the LOD down there (02:16 PM) ppusa1: but ... (02:16 PM) ppusa1: maybe another situation (02:16 PM) subtvshow: makes sense steve (02:17 PM) ppusa1: just trying to make him famous (more famous) (02:17 PM) SP Steve: This is starting to be a good one... (02:18 PM) ppusa1: money where mouth is, short here (02:18 PM) SP Steve: This trade started as a 6 point risk (02:19 PM) ppusa1: PnF's to oversold (02:19 PM) SP Steve: atta boy pp (02:20 PM) SP Steve: If not stopped out at 73.50, ADD At 66 stop (02:20 PM) rich012: too much irrational exhuberence here on the short side (02:20 PM) rich012: careful guys (02:20 PM) SP Steve: Just keep stops in... (02:21 PM) goh_3: no volume at all (02:21 PM) Ensign Software: Hi, we intend to formally release the version that has been in beta testing for the past month with a host of new features. Watch the web site and download new version when the data has been updated to today's date to indicate the new version has been uploaded and is available for download. (02:21 PM) tkay_1: if steve avergaed all his entries and placed a BE there (02:21 PM) tkay_1: and it was hit, he'd make exactly 0 (02:21 PM) tkay_1: on the whole thing (02:21 PM) tkay_1: right pp (02:21 PM) skyprince_1: Thnks Ensign Paltalk: Multivideo has been activated in all Paltalk groups!!! With Paltalk 4.0 (available from our beta link on our homepage), you can see up to three people in every group. Paltalk Plus subscribers can see people in full motion video. (02:22 PM) ppusa1: out (02:22 PM) SP Steve: If the 66 sells are hit, lower stops down to 70 on everything (02:22 PM) SP Steve: There it is! (02:22 PM) SP Steve: stops now at 1670 (02:22 PM) ppusa1: poor place to short but i wanted to make a point (02:22 PM) SP Steve: and short 3 units now (02:22 PM) tomsurf: Thx Howard! (02:22 PM) Ensign Software: The What's New page on the web site will show a lengthly list of the changes, new features, and improvements. Will be in Ensign room later afternoon to discuss any questions you have about new version and how to use the features. Several helped beta test it. Thanks to all beta testers, and Merry Christmas from all of us at Ensign Software. Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== (02:23 PM) tomsurf: Howard- sounds Great! (02:23 PM) skyprince_1: Wow! And early Christmas! (02:23 PM) goh_3: I took profits here (02:23 PM) Ensign Software: We think it is great, and hope you find it to be that way too. (02:23 PM) ppusa1: tkay i scrolled back. yes he would be at zero if that happened (02:23 PM) Ensign Software: bye (02:24 PM) tomsurf: take care (02:24 PM) tkay_1: hehe (02:25 PM) ppusa1: okay so we compare steve's style here to my suggestion. (02:25 PM) rich012: needs to start dropping soon (02:26 PM) SP Steve: That would be nice (02:26 PM) ppusa1: i said sell at 70 area. now i think osold so scale out on new lows (02:26 PM) ppusa1: so now steve sold 3 more at 70 (or was it 20 more) and is scaling out (02:27 PM) tomsurf: pp- are you short? (02:27 PM) SP Steve: short one unit at 81, one at 75, and one at 65.50 (02:27 PM) ppusa1: no (02:28 PM) ppusa1: i sold for a scalp 'cos i only wanted to make a point (02:28 PM) tkay_1: one unit is 20 contracts right:) (02:28 PM) SP Steve: The truth? (02:28 PM) SP Steve: 26 (02:28 PM) SP Steve: Total all clients (02:28 PM) ppusa1: i didn't want gully to come in and say i don't put my money where my mouth is (02:29 PM) ppusa1: i sold at 67.5 and bot back at 66.5 and will show anyone who wants to see it the confirmation (02:29 PM) SP Steve: stops down to 69 (02:29 PM) goh_3: ES quite resilient (02:29 PM) ppusa1: Steve osold here (02:29 PM) SP Steve: a little (02:29 PM) ppusa1: a lot (02:29 PM) SP Steve: My target is 1628.. I hope (02:30 PM) ppusa1: be careful (02:30 PM) SP Steve: I have a 6 point stop (02:30 PM) SP Steve: How much more careful can i be? (02:31 PM) ppusa1: anyway i have missed this whole move but if most of you have learned something i am happy (02:31 PM) tomsurf: pp- from you or Steve, lol (02:31 PM) ppusa1: either or (02:32 PM) rich012: pp, are u gully? :-) (02:32 PM) goh_3: TICK over 550 now quite bullish (02:32 PM) ppusa1: if you don't want to hear this please tell me 'cos i can trade instead (02:32 PM) tomsurf: gully been rubbing off on him, ;-) (02:32 PM) ppusa1: argh (02:32 PM) tomsurf: pp- ya need the colored lines though (02:32 PM) goh_3: keep typing pp (02:33 PM) tomsurf: just kiddin ya :-) (02:33 PM) ppusa1: infidels! Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (02:33 PM) tomsurf: lol (02:33 PM) rich012: tom, he sounds just like gully (02:33 PM) tomsurf: gully must be like a virus, lol (02:33 PM) tkay_1: hehe yes, the it does this unless that stuff, oo soo gully:) (02:33 PM) rich012: I think it rallies now. Will post my trades after the fact. (02:33 PM) ppusa1: got mic and sound (02:35 PM) tomsurf: Divergence on that last low, but day isn't over (02:35 PM) SP Steve: If we don't get hit, 4'th add will be 1160 sell stop (02:35 PM) ppusa1: long (02:35 PM) rich012: I am patting myself on the back for remembering the IB stop/limit deficiencies and putting in the right orders this time ! (02:36 PM) subtvshow: what deficierncies rich? (02:36 PM) SP Steve: Rich, you are one smart fella (02:36 PM) rich012: ppusa, u just getting long? Man. I bought the low tick. (02:36 PM) tomsurf: rich- all right....I remember that day (02:37 PM) ppusa1: out (02:37 PM) rich012: sub, it converts mkt and stop orders to limit orders 5 pts. from your stop price or market entry. (02:38 PM) tkay_1: heeh (02:38 PM) subtvshow: it does this all the time? (02:38 PM) goh_3: the NQ is attracted by the gap at 1650 me thinks (02:38 PM) rich012: That means that stop orers to sell entered at something like 65 could not be entered into their system since they would enter as 59 limit and that was below the LD price. (02:38 PM) SP Steve: Did the 4'th add now (02:39 PM) SP Steve: stops on everything down to 65 now (02:39 PM) ppusa1: goh i think u r correct (02:39 PM) subtvshow: i dont understand that rich. so hnow do you compensate for that? (02:39 PM) ppusa1: sometimes they will tease it (02:40 PM) SP Steve: i think I just sold the low (02:40 PM) SP Steve: again (02:43 PM) ppusa1: 5 down 15 minute bars Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (02:43 PM) SP Steve: How often does that happen pp? (02:43 PM) ppusa1: a lot (02:43 PM) ppusa1: not many more through (02:44 PM) ppusa1: though (02:44 PM) ppusa1: 3 to 5 no big deal (02:44 PM) goh_3: I expect the ES to make a double top at 1155.75 then short (02:44 PM) ppusa1: start scaling rather than stop (02:44 PM) ppusa1: no more entries unless hit 52.5 gap (02:44 PM) rich012: sub, example---Price at 67 and LD is 64. If you have try a sell stop at 65, it is converted to a limit sell at 60 as soon as 65 hit. But since that is below the limit, IB won't accpet the order. So you need to just use straight limits. Same think can hppen to market orders so if tried to sell at market when price at 68, it gets converted to sell at limit at 63 and can't be entered since below the LD price. (02:45 PM) dave_b_quik: thanks, rich (02:46 PM) ppusa1: Get ready to cover a clunk!!!! (02:46 PM) subtvshow: so this only happens during limit down? (02:46 PM) SP Steve: Lower stops down to 64 now (02:46 PM) rich012: someone clearly didn't want it to get back above 63. Ouch! (02:46 PM) SP Steve: yeah ... me (02:46 PM) rich012: sub, yes...something to be aware of (02:47 PM) subtvshow: thanks (02:47 PM) rich012: steve, so you sold more?? :-) (02:47 PM) SP Steve: at 59, yep (02:48 PM) SP Steve: This is as many as I have been short in a long time (02:48 PM) dave_b_quik: 4 units? (02:48 PM) rich012: you got guts, no way could I sell the lows when this o/s (02:48 PM) SP Steve: yes (02:49 PM) SP Steve: I mean the stops are in... There is nothing I can do, so I am calm about it (02:49 PM) SP Steve: kind of (02:50 PM) goh_3: the NDX hit the gap the NQ didnīt thats positive divergence (02:50 PM) SP Steve: I will say this.... You should see some activity if it hits 64 (02:50 PM) tomsurf: Steve- that's what I was thinking,LOL (02:51 PM) SP Steve: Take my word for it (02:51 PM) rich012: Maybe we should buy 63 (just kidding steve!) (02:51 PM) tomsurf: you may be the short interest today, lol (02:51 PM) SP Steve: lol (02:52 PM) SP Steve: so should I (02:52 PM) tkay_1: heh me puts buy stops at 63.5 per operation "take out steve's stops" :) Paltalk: Click banners to visit our sponsors. (02:52 PM) SP Steve: I will probably pay 67 (02:52 PM) tkay_1: j/k (02:52 PM) rich012: tkay, LOL (02:52 PM) goh_3: the ES takes out the 5 min EMA here (02:52 PM) SP Steve: How is that? (02:52 PM) SP Steve: lol Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== (02:53 PM) SP Steve: oh well... made 36 points ... and i do believe I am done for the day (02:53 PM) rich012: should have a tough time going up much farther (02:54 PM) rich012: nice steve (02:54 PM) tomsurf: Steve- take off, you have more than earned it :-) (02:54 PM) goh_3: many shorts will cover before the weekend ... (02:54 PM) SP Steve: I think the easy money is done now.. This is going to be a struggle from here on out (02:54 PM) ppusa1: i think you need to look at the 15 minute chart and if there isn't an up bar don't add after 3 down bars (02:54 PM) dave_b_quik: good job, steve (02:55 PM) tomsurf: Steve- that was a clinic on trading, great to see. (02:55 PM) goh_3: there is a hammer on the 15 min not a very reliable signal but (02:55 PM) SP Steve: Thanks (02:55 PM) SP Steve: MILLER TIME...... (02:55 PM) tkay_1: :) (02:56 PM) 9r: yes, nice clinic steve :) (02:56 PM) SP Steve: If anyone wants to see that last trade i will send it... e-mail me at sremsing@pricegroup.com. (02:56 PM) SP Steve: Thanks, and have a great wekend all! (02:57 PM) tomsurf: You too Steve (02:57 PM) tkay_1: post em all on da website if u can (02:57 PM) ppusa1: by Steve (02:57 PM) SP Steve: later pal (02:57 PM) dave_b_quik: steve, i'll post it on the website if you send it to me, dave@dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com (02:57 PM) goh_3: you are a brave trader steve (02:58 PM) SP Steve: I am really a chicken (02:58 PM) SP Steve: Just not smart enough to figure out what the market will do, so that's why I always enter on stops (02:58 PM) dave_b_quik: what do they say about old traders and bold traders? (02:59 PM) tomsurf: dave- lol (02:59 PM) dave_b_quik: me too, steve (02:59 PM) SP Steve: I don't agree with that one thogh.. (02:59 PM) tomsurf: think the saying was borrowed from pilots ;-) (02:59 PM) skyprince_1: There are old traders and bold traders, but no old bold traders. (03:00 PM) tkay_1: some of the best ones are pretty bold (03:00 PM) skyprince_1: Yep tom...it was (03:00 PM) tkay_1: like soros etc. (03:00 PM) ppusa1: bomds got pounded today (03:00 PM) ppusa1: bonnds (03:00 PM) dave_b_quik: that saying originally was coined in reference to dynamiters: "there's old blasters and there's bold blasters, but there's no old bold blasters" (03:00 PM) skyprince_1: Say that three times! (03:00 PM) tomsurf: dave- Ah, heck no doubt, LOL (03:00 PM) SP Steve: I don't really thinkl my style is that bold, I just need to keep lowering risk by adding and moving stops.... Also, I think you NEED to catch a big winner every once in a while (03:00 PM) dave_b_quik: applies to a lotta things tho (03:01 PM) SP Steve: as far as percentage ... I was less that 50% right today, but had 2 decent winners, and 2 small losers (03:01 PM) dave_b_quik: i like adding after the trade is in the money steve, very sound (03:01 PM) SP Steve: Hey, I guess that is 50% (03:01 PM) SP Steve: I told you I am not that smart! (03:01 PM) SP Steve: lol (03:02 PM) dave_b_quik: so you're batting .500 (03:02 PM) dave_b_quik: nuttin wrong with that (03:02 PM) SP Steve: yep... but up 62 pouints on the day, so percentage isn't that important (03:03 PM) dave_b_quik: as long as your av gain is that much bigger than yr av loss, you're golden (03:03 PM) SP Steve: In any case, I like to see who actually watches my stuff, that's why I asked to e-mail me (03:03 PM) SP Steve: yep (03:03 PM) SP Steve: I will also send that to you Dave Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (03:03 PM) perltrader: steve, on how many contracts? (03:03 PM) SP Steve: Have a great weekend all (03:03 PM) dave_b_quik: thanks, steve (03:03 PM) SP Steve: started with one on each trade (03:04 PM) perltrader: so 62 points total, right? (03:04 PM) SP Steve: wound up with 3 on one trade, and 4 on another (03:04 PM) SP Steve: yes sir (03:04 PM) SP Steve: or maam... (03:04 PM) perltrader: that's great and a neat approach - thanks! have a great weekend (03:06 PM) rich012: look out above (03:06 PM) perltrader: as in the gates (03:07 PM) rich012: as in price (03:07 PM) dave_b_quik: so you can help us with our programming questions? (03:08 PM) perltrader: well, probably, i'll try - i've been working on a method of identiyfying trend versus chop to add to retrotrader on the front end, but it's slow going (03:08 PM) rich012: I should be long here, but a chicken (03:08 PM) rich012: durn it (03:09 PM) goh_3: maybe we get a second chance .. (03:10 PM) tkay_1: what approach are you workin on perl? (03:10 PM) ppusa1: hard getting long when ya see the 52.5 gap hit but not filled (03:10 PM) perltrader: dave, here's my email if you want: david@habanero.chem.usu.edu (03:11 PM) rich012: goh, I dunno, either it keeps going ot it is not worth a secong try imo (03:11 PM) tomsurf: perl- have you seen any of Dirk's work? (03:11 PM) perltrader: i want to use hidden markov on appropriately codified data; trick is finding the coding (03:11 PM) perltrader: tom, no, i haven't (03:12 PM) tkay_1: whaaaaaat:) (03:12 PM) tomsurf: He has been doing the same with his ARI...think he's redoing the code now. (03:12 PM) goh_3: I cant help myself but I am very bullish right now (03:12 PM) perltrader: hidden markov? (03:13 PM) perltrader: what's ARI (03:13 PM) tomsurf: some info. at the emini board on Yahoo (03:13 PM) tkay_1: yea whats hidden markov with codified data:) Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (03:13 PM) tomsurf: Accumulated Reversal Index (03:14 PM) ppusa1: sometimes i think we make to big a deal about all these indexes, etc. Steve sees down enters and adds period. (03:15 PM) perltrader: let's say you have a string of sunny, rainy and cloudy days SSSCCRSSS (03:15 PM) perltrader: then can you predict what the next letter will be with some decent probability. the idea i sto do similar with indexes (03:15 PM) goh_3: 2nd chance (03:15 PM) skyprince_1: Analysis paralysis perhaps? (03:15 PM) perltrader: but not to predict the next letter but to recognize a change of trend or range -> trend (03:15 PM) tkay_1: hm how decent of a prob.? (03:16 PM) tomsurf: pp- that is a valid point :-) (03:16 PM) perltrader: well, it works quite well in bioinformatics, but don't know about indexes - that's what i'm working on (03:16 PM) tomsurf: like GT would say- I sell red bars and Buy green ones, lol (03:16 PM) perltrader: actually, the idea is to avoid analysis paralysis by not using indicators and letting this approach tell you when not to trade (03:17 PM) MarkCA: anyone have any info on interpreting ARI? I looked at this indicator, and it did not seem as useful as ADX. (03:17 PM) perltrader: and when there is a good chance of a trend emeging or continuing (03:17 PM) tomsurf: perl- good concept it sounds like (03:17 PM) perltrader: trouble is doing that in chop is diastrous (03:17 PM) perltrader: well, i like retor but want a way to avoid chop; willlet you know - should take another month to have some data (03:18 PM) tomsurf: Mark, don't think it's finished yet, still a work in progress (03:19 PM) MarkCA: well the system may be in progress, but isn't the indicator itself been around for a while? (03:20 PM) ppusa1: Steve has been in a sell mindset for sometime. it has caused him to make some mistakes. But he knows how to work the winners. (03:20 PM) perltrader: i think that's the key - avoid chop and then ride the winners. riding profits is harder than cutting losses i find (03:20 PM) goh_3: Steveīs method is as simple as it is hard to do (03:21 PM) perltrader: chop demoralizes then when a trend starts you're too scared to do anything with it (03:21 PM) Walt299-WA: correct pp....and it paid off for him today..stuck his toe in a bunch of times (03:21 PM) ppusa1: i think the chop vs. trend indicator would be the most valuable tool anyone could have. Paltalk: Love PalTalk but hate the banners and popups? Go bannerless! Only $14.95 per year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (03:22 PM) perltrader: that's what i'm working on - it might not work but i will let you know (03:22 PM) perltrader: what happens (03:22 PM) ppusa1: PnF helps me do that (03:22 PM) Walt299-WA: what" mistakes" as you put it ...did he make??? (03:22 PM) skyprince_1: Agree...I want a big ol needle..."chop" meter... (03:22 PM) perltrader: the idea is to improve the odds a bit (03:22 PM) ppusa1: i called the big drop with it today (03:23 PM) Walt299-WA: did you profit from your call ???? (03:23 PM) ppusa1: walt the other day he kept selling the lows (03:23 PM) goh_3: someone in the room once mentioned it: comparing the tail to the body of the candles if the tail is longer than the body (of the last 2 or 3 candles) on the 5 min we have chop (03:23 PM) perltrader: for 250 a month i'll uissue a 15min chop signal gully II !!! (03:23 PM) dave_b_quik: LOL (03:23 PM) perltrader: might have een me, that's one thing i'm putting in - candlestick parameters (03:23 PM) tkay_1: isnt gully's fee one-time Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== (03:23 PM) rich012: markca, I looked at the ARI that dirk had and wasn't sure how it use it either. (03:24 PM) ppusa1: i thought i made that point Walt when i took that short just to prove a point (03:24 PM) rich012: tkay, I think it is ine time (03:24 PM) perltrader: basically canldes get "hairer"it seems pre chop (03:25 PM) Walt299-WA: lol..sounds like sound trading to me..... (03:25 PM) perltrader: anyone long? (03:25 PM) ppusa1: that candle comment is very interesting (03:25 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, i hate hair on a candle (03:25 PM) perltrader: so the idea is to label candles by their characters then look at statistics of chop versus nonchop (03:26 PM) rich012: perl, not me...I didn;t take a long signalI got, but they would have shaken me out in that last chp near 68 anyways (03:26 PM) goh_3: I once heard it in this room and I use it (03:26 PM) skyprince_1: perl...tht's what I use....long tails, I'm flat...totally visual... (03:26 PM) perltrader: i held my breath and jumped in, but now wonder if i can stay in! (03:26 PM) ppusa1: thihnk i will take a look at some charts to see if i can make some sense of it. i will say that anytime you break from congestion there usually is a trend (03:26 PM) dave_b_quik: tuff to stay in a long when it's grinding up (03:26 PM) rich012: perl, I think staying long here is the thing to do! (03:27 PM) perltrader: bull markets usually strong in pm (03:27 PM) rich012: hindsight trader (03:27 PM) perltrader: lol! (03:27 PM) ppusa1: according to PnF there should be a pullback soon (03:28 PM) ppusa1: ideally from 80m to 85 (03:29 PM) perltrader: out (03:29 PM) ppusa1: 6 tick obot here (03:29 PM) perltrader: dave - what you prgramming? (03:30 PM) dave_b_quik: a few people were trying to program the retro rules (03:30 PM) dave_b_quik: and i get stuck on ESPL (03:30 PM) perltrader: i tried too, they are hard because of the pattern recognition (03:30 PM) tomsurf: dave- that w/be real nice :-) (03:30 PM) dave_b_quik: i thot that might be hard (03:31 PM) perltrader: i use Perl language and then make charts using a graphing package (03:31 PM) dave_b_quik: ok, that's good to know (03:31 PM) perltrader: my method is to codify canldes as symbols and then look for patterns in the symbols (03:31 PM) perltrader: since charts are fractal pattern recognition is very tough (03:32 PM) perltrader: i sretro still working ok? (03:32 PM) dave_b_quik: i couldn't even come up with a mathematical formula for a swing hi, much less for a 2B (03:33 PM) dave_b_quik: retro has it's moments on the trend days, but doesn't work at all on the range days (03:33 PM) perltrader: tehre really isn't a unique one so the best approach i think i sto use artificial intelligence methods (03:33 PM) tkay_1: by fractal you mean like every bar could be broken down into lower tframe bars and so on indefinitely? (03:33 PM) perltrader: right (03:33 PM) perltrader: with patterns on all time frames, so any patern is not unique Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (03:34 PM) tkay_1: well i read somewhere (03:34 PM) tkay_1: that chaos ie. fractals whatever are predictable (03:34 PM) tkay_1: ie. chaos is not random (03:34 PM) tkay_1: i always thought chaos was random for example (03:34 PM) tkay_1: and i think thats the popular perception (03:34 PM) SP Steve: I had to come back.. There is a classic set-up for one last trade (03:35 PM) SP Steve: SELL NASDSAQ at 1669 stop (03:35 PM) perltrader: well, chaos is not the same as pure randomness - in fact it's worse which is probbaly why people trade worse than if they traded randomly (03:35 PM) tkay_1: go steve! go steve!:) (03:35 PM) SP Steve: Mi8ght not get it at all (03:35 PM) goh_3: decent short covering here (03:38 PM) tomsurf: just hit it's head on the 15min ema (03:38 PM) dave_b_quik: I posted some TL springs that I've been seeing a lot (and sometimes catching) (03:39 PM) tomsurf: dave- great (03:40 PM) Walt299-WA: would like to see 51.5 taken out for a short.....joe conservative here..... (03:41 PM) goh_3: 1160 former swing high plus the hourly EMA should be strong supp ES (03:42 PM) SP Steve: SELLING NOW (03:42 PM) SP Steve: one unit (03:42 PM) SP Steve: risking 6 ... stops at 1683 (03:42 PM) SP Steve: adding at 1669 stop (03:42 PM) perltrader: dave, one approach in retro would be use profit stops rather than patterns - have you tried that, what i mean is to optimize the trailing stops - it amounts to the same thing as using patterns if done right (03:42 PM) perltrader: i mean in the programming not in the trading (03:43 PM) tkay_1: exits are pretty good i think (03:43 PM) tkay_1: the problem is entries into chop i think (03:44 PM) perltrader: yes, i meant for backtesting as a practical way of avoiding pattern recognition in programs Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (03:44 PM) tkay_1: ooo (03:44 PM) perltrader: but i agree on the chop, that's my goal ! chop indicator (03:46 PM) dave_b_quik: I posted the 5 spring trades from yesterday now too (03:46 PM) x21r: perl Im trying retro in excell and use swing and trail as stop but i use adjustebel TF enadjustibel stop depending of type of day(15min period) ..slow selling ..fast moving day (03:48 PM) SP Steve: Adding at 69 stop... short from 77 (03:49 PM) perltrader: in backtesting, on emethod is too look for patterns; another would beto make the retro entry then monitor the profit keeping track of it's highs and lows - so you'd always know where the swings were; it's just easier than trying to analyse patterns and amounts to the same thing (03:50 PM) SP Steve: If this trades under 69, there is still plenty of time to make new lows (03:52 PM) goh_3: double top attempt (03:52 PM) goh_3: will fail imo Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. (03:52 PM) ppusa1: i see what u r looking for ... think maybe a little to bearish. i sold for the 6 tick pb but covered Paltalk: ========================================== Save up to 80% on inkjet cartridges! Lowest Prices and Highest Quality products. FREE SHIPPING with minimum purchase. Customer satisfaction guaranteed. Click Here ========================================== (03:55 PM) SP Steve: I just couldn't leave well enough alone, could I? (03:56 PM) perltrader: same here steve, amazing isn't it - just one more trade (03:56 PM) SP Steve: oh well... gave back 6 points (03:57 PM) goh_3: tick near hod SPX broke its downtrendline .. we might see buying onnext week (04:00 PM) dave_b_quik: that's for the "old traders fund" steve (04:00 PM) ppusa1: if nq makes another new high then comes down i think should have folllow through. maybe this will help someone pick a trend (04:01 PM) ppusa1: comes down now, not as likely (04:01 PM) Walt299-WA: ya mean there are "old" traders ?? lol that need money ? (04:02 PM) SP Steve: lol Dave (04:03 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, walt, the other 85% or so they say (04:04 PM) Walt299-WA: pp.....do you differentiate between trend....and direction ??? Paltalk: ========================================== CallWave has developed the Internet Answering Machine, a FREE alternative to a dedicated modem line, and available to Internet users nationwide! It can be up and running in minutes by Clicking Here CallWave........It's a lot better than a busy signal! ========================================== (04:11 PM) ppusa1: walt ??? Paltalk: ========================================== Find the Best Sites on the Web Click Here ========================================== (04:18 PM) Ensign Software: HI, the Dec 7th version of Ensign Windows is now available for download. Please read the What's New page on the web site. I will be in the Ensign room to answer questions the rest of the afternoon too. (04:18 PM) perltrader: ES - can ensign use myTrack data? (04:19 PM) paths: one question, how much bigger is the regular SP contract than the mini contract, is it say 10 times larger? i'm not trading futures so am not familiar, but I am going through the cot reports to make a weigted total. (04:19 PM) paths: same for NDX and nqmini? (04:21 PM) SP Steve: SP iss 1/5