Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni. Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk. Paltalk: Love PalTalk but hate the banners and popups? Go bannerless! Only $9.95 per year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. (08:30 AM) capt rocky: anyone copy??? (08:30 AM) capt rocky: bye then. Paltalk: Press the INVITE button NOW! Get your friends in on the fun! Invite them to join us on PalTalk today! (09:00 AM) x21r: good mornig all (09:02 AM) ann_87: gm Paltalk: You DO have a choice! Buy bannerless to end your popup blues today! Click OPTIONS on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Only $9.95 a year! That's less than THREE CENTS per day! WOW!!! (09:05 AM) dbphoenix: Morning. (09:06 AM) dbphoenix: You there, Dave? (09:22 AM) BrainStorm: hello hello (09:22 AM) nona_124: hi room (09:23 AM) nona_124: what exactly do u talk about (09:24 AM) dbphoenix: Trading emini futures. (09:24 AM) dbphoenix: Dave, you there yet? (09:25 AM) dbphoenix: BS, you doing retro? (09:26 AM) dbphoenix: Anybody doing retro? (09:26 AM) Toporiental: Hello room (09:26 AM) BrainStorm: Sorry db prep yes I have retro (09:26 AM) Toporiental: Hi Dave (09:26 AM) BrainStorm: though not trading it (09:26 AM) Toporiental: What's retro? (09:26 AM) BrainStorm: should say am watching retro (09:27 AM) dbphoenix: How do you think this gap would be played (guess nobody else is here)? (09:27 AM) Toporiental: What are you talking about? (09:27 AM) dbphoenix: It's a trading system some members use. (09:28 AM) BrainStorm: tough call but the short term trend appears (09:28 AM) BrainStorm: up (09:28 AM) dbphoenix: I'm wondering if an exit below the bottom of the 15m bar would be ignored since it's above the 20p. (09:28 AM) BrainStorm: but as likely to fill the gap before resuming the up I would have thought (09:29 AM) BrainStorm: well as you may know my view on the 20ma is that its bogus untill you have 20 bars in the period you are trading (09:30 AM) dbphoenix: I agree it should probably fill, but I sure wouldn't short. Since everything points up, I'd be more likely to buy the retracement. (09:30 AM) BrainStorm: yes the 'immediate' trend is nicely up (09:30 AM) BrainStorm: ding (09:31 AM) dbphoenix: As to the MA, since these trade continuously, it's easier to maintain. (09:31 AM) BrainStorm: my guess is try and fill the gap then take off (09:31 AM) BrainStorm: but it is just that (a guess) (09:31 AM) ppusa: high of the month if nq turns down which at this point there is no indication that it will (09:32 AM) ppusa: more looking like 9/11 gap was exhaustion gap and no where to go but up (09:33 AM) BrainStorm: garee ppusa must be stops below that are worth gunning before the climb though (09:35 AM) dbphoenix: Dave, you there yet? Paltalk: To visit our sponsors, click on banners! (09:36 AM) dbphoenix: Room must be empty. (09:36 AM) ann_87: 1357 closes the gap (09:36 AM) ppusa: maybe they won't let any one in and take it straight up (09:36 AM) ppusa: ridiculously overbought though (09:37 AM) ann_87: from the 10th (09:39 AM) ppusa: no just here (09:39 AM) jimmer49: I'm here, but getting ready to go to a meeting. Keep the light on for me. (09:40 AM) BrainStorm: ES stronger again (09:41 AM) BrainStorm: or maybe just lagging ? (09:42 AM) Orprepus: pp I was bullish today for gap closing on naz - but nothing like this wow (09:43 AM) ann_87: 1102.50 close of sp on 10th (09:44 AM) Orprepus: get you rocket shoes on Astro Boy we going to the moon (09:44 AM) dbphoenix: Ann, are you trading retro? (09:45 AM) ann_87: i watch it sometimes (09:45 AM) ann_87: and i trade it sometimes, but not constantly (09:45 AM) ppusa: pathetic if this turned outto be the high for the month (09:48 AM) jimbo_320: gm all (09:48 AM) BrainStorm: hi jimbo (09:49 AM) jimbo_320: hiya bs (09:50 AM) jimbo_320: trin low 0.34 (09:50 AM) ann_87: dow the only one that did not really fill its gap (09:51 AM) jimbo_320: any news? (09:51 AM) ann_87: IB 5 min nq (09:53 AM) ppusa: rumor binladen captured (09:54 AM) ann_87: some rumor that (09:54 AM) ann_87: so saying it could be one reason for this huge move (09:54 AM) skyprince_1: Hmmmmm.....trade the rumors.... (09:55 AM) skyprince_1: If the rumor is debunked, look out... (09:55 AM) QSuzy: jobless claims reported less than expected at 8:30 this morn which is when futures really jumped.... (09:57 AM) jimbo_320: anyone heard of rolfe @ nolan ? (09:58 AM) skyprince_1: Looks a bit frothy here... (10:00 AM) TN_BIGDADDY: anyone know whats going on with goodyear? (10:02 AM) ppusa: If PnF reversed would suggest high of the month...Would rather wait for confirmation than step in front as all i see is an exhaustion gap. (10:02 AM) jimbo_320: i cant remember the last time i saw the es put in 15 consecutive 1 min up bars from the open (10:03 AM) ppusa: lots of buy signals PnF Paltalk: Subscribe to Paltalk Plus to stop the popups today! Get it NOW for less than THREE CENTS a day! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (10:07 AM) dbphoenix: Sky, you trading retro? (10:07 AM) jimbo_320: sold 1/2 4.5 es (10:07 AM) ppusa: 1-2-3 to high ... anyone dare go short? (10:08 AM) dbphoenix: You mean EW 1-2-3? (10:08 AM) ppusa: y (10:09 AM) jimbo_320: es sold off fast (10:09 AM) dbphoenix: Maybe you'll get five. ES looks weak, tho. (10:10 AM) jimbo_320: should of bailed the lot up there (10:10 AM) ppusa: HOD??? if anyone has the guts (10:10 AM) hanksterr: rumor binladen likes pork (10:11 AM) BrainStorm: Nas below last swing high which I guess is a 2B (10:11 AM) jimbo_320: trin big move up, tick from 1000 to 200 in 3 mins (10:11 AM) BrainStorm: 5min that is (10:11 AM) ppusa: emini nasty (10:11 AM) dbphoenix: Not yet, BS. Has to drop below 1361. (10:12 AM) ppusa: support here ...don't know how much, go thru this and look out below (10:12 AM) BrainStorm: hmm where do you get that from db ? (10:13 AM) BrainStorm: is it the bottom of the bar that peneterated the last swing high ? (10:13 AM) dbphoenix: It's the pullback low. Until that's violated, you still have higher highs and higher lows. (10:13 AM) BrainStorm: ahh OK not sure thats how Vic describes it will re-read (10:14 AM) dbphoenix: There's a 2B on the ES 3m, tho. (10:14 AM) ppusa: nasty nasty day (10:15 AM) jimbo_320: where did you hear the bin laden rumour? (10:15 AM) ppusa: CNBC for one (10:15 AM) ppusa: now denied (10:15 AM) dave_b_quik: that's a riot (10:16 AM) jimbo_320: shame, then we could really rally (10:16 AM) dbphoenix: If they're smart, they won't announce it. They'll just make him disappear. (10:16 AM) ppusa: CNBC awful awful awful (10:16 AM) jimbo_320: time to get those rally gaps out of the wardrobe (10:16 AM) jimbo_320: they'll be dusty by now (10:16 AM) ppusa: emini nasty nasty nasty (10:16 AM) BrainStorm: hmm vic describes it as a violation of previous high in an uptrend not low (10:17 AM) BrainStorm: 2b that is (10:18 AM) dbphoenix: As long as you're making higher highs and higher lows, you're still in an uptrend. (10:18 AM) BrainStorm: as does the chart on dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart..im confused (10:18 AM) jimbo_320: approaching the 20ema3 on es (10:18 AM) BrainStorm: potential (10:18 AM) BrainStorm: yes but 2b indicates ptetial break of trend (10:19 AM) BrainStorm: as described for retro it is the break of the high unless dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart is out of date (10:19 AM) dbphoenix: True. But until there's a failure, it's only a potential 2B, not a confirmed 2B. Same as with 1-2-3. (10:19 AM) ppusa: think will break 60 but then whatt? (10:19 AM) dbphoenix: If it were only the break of the high, you'd have dozens of 2Bs every day. (10:20 AM) BrainStorm: once it breaks the low you have a 1 2 3 anyway ? (10:20 AM) dbphoenix: No, you don't have a 1-2-3 until the trendline is broken. 2Bs have nothing to do with trendlines. (10:20 AM) BrainStorm: 3 dojis on the 15 min nas by the way (last one not finished forming) (10:21 AM) skyprince_1: Indecision abounds.... (10:21 AM) BrainStorm: what you are saying on 2b is differnt to both Vic & dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart I am confused (10:21 AM) BrainStorm: they both say in an uptrend it is the violaton of the previous swing high not low (10:21 AM) dbphoenix: Define violation. (10:21 AM) jimbo_320: looks like the big boys are still asset allocating (10:21 AM) BrainStorm: I agree with you though the trend is still in tact till then (10:22 AM) BrainStorm: drops below (10:22 AM) BrainStorm: but 2B indicates a 'potential' reversal (10:23 AM) BrainStorm: Not having a go just whant to be clear in my understanding as several people seem to define 2b differntly (10:23 AM) dbphoenix: Like I said, if you define 2B as dropping below the low of the high bar, you'd have dozens of 2Bs every day. That sort of defeats the point of looking for them. (10:23 AM) skyprince_1: 2b voodoo... (10:24 AM) dbphoenix: Sperandeo also says that you can't cross through any lines when drawing a trendline. But there are many circumstances where you have to in order to get a trendline that makes sense. (10:25 AM) Tom_B: pp..supp 1330 ? (10:25 AM) BrainStorm: No Vic definately defines it as prices drop below the previous high not the previous high bar (10:26 AM) Orprepus: how do you get a trend line on a rocket (10:26 AM) BrainStorm: I only just got the book so was reading it this am (10:26 AM) ppusa: no idea where support is here (10:26 AM) dbphoenix: Note the 2B on the 3m ES. That violated the last swing low and turned out to be important in terms of falling further. The trend has now changed to either down or sideways depending on what happens next. But the trend is no longer up. (10:26 AM) Tom_B: k (10:26 AM) jimbo_320: i would expect es to bounce of 94 (10:27 AM) ppusa: only comment i have today is if market turns down and stays down, probably end up being the high of the month (10:27 AM) BrainStorm: the way dave has it drawn on dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart is also dropping through the high not the low...just think it important that everyone using the same terms (10:27 AM) dbphoenix: If the 2B is only a drop below the previous high, then every bar that doesn't make a new high is a potential 2B. That doesn't make much sense in terms of developing a realtime strategy. (10:27 AM) Tom_B: seemed low..just looking at the chart... prob back & fill now.. (10:27 AM) BrainStorm: no it must be a swing high i.e. a bar that has two lower bars each side (10:28 AM) BrainStorm: there is a picture linked on dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart (10:28 AM) BrainStorm: do take your point though (10:28 AM) ppusa: dbp in a trending market (15 minute chart) some people have had good results adding every bar (10:29 AM) Tom_B: wud be shrt here (10:30 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, the 15m 2B top was triggered (10:31 AM) ppusa: grind down all day long??? (10:32 AM) dave_b_quik: sounds good (10:32 AM) Tom_B: Poss H&S on 300 tic (10:33 AM) dbphoenix: You now have 2Bs on the 1, 3, and 5 NQ. (10:34 AM) dave_b_quik: also 9m and 15m (10:34 AM) BrainStorm: db dave has just said 15 also (10:34 AM) BrainStorm: he should arbitrate I rekon :-) (10:35 AM) dave_b_quik: some difference of opinion on 2B definitions? Paltalk: Please visit our advertisers by clicking on banners. (10:35 AM) Tom_B: that's a "new" one :) (10:35 AM) dbphoenix: I guess we'll just have to disagree. I just don't see an advantage in defining a 2B as any failure to make a new swing high. (10:35 AM) BrainStorm: no thats not it (10:36 AM) ann_87: db the price must make a new high to be a 2b (10:36 AM) BrainStorm: its the violation of the previous swing high (10:36 AM) ann_87: but it then fails to go higher (10:36 AM) ann_87: 2b is not a lower high (10:36 AM) Tom_B: if we're going to break..need it soon (10:36 AM) BrainStorm: not the low of thae bar that makes the previous swing high (10:36 AM) dbphoenix: But that makes every bar that doesn't make a new high a 2B. (10:37 AM) dbphoenix: There has to be a definition of "violation". (10:37 AM) BrainStorm: the price drops below the high of the last swing high (10:37 AM) ppusa: the only ones thatmatter are the ones retro looks at (10:37 AM) dave_b_quik: I use T.Lo's definition of breaking the low of the poke bar (10:37 AM) dbphoenix: That's what I said, Any bar that doesn't make a new high would be a 2B (10:38 AM) ann_87: db look at the dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart of retro example of 2b (10:38 AM) BrainStorm: thats a differnt definition again (10:38 AM) jimbo_320: posted 2 good jokes on jimbo1 +2 (10:39 AM) dave_b_quik: for me there has to be a retracement off a high, then a penetration of the high, and the low of the penetration bar has to be violated (10:39 AM) dbphoenix: Sorry, but if a failure of a bar to make a new swing high is a 2B, then you're going to be trading countertrend. The trend doesn't change until you've got lower highs and lower lows. (10:41 AM) dbphoenix: Not trying to be difficult. But a 2B should be important, at least in terms of flagging trend change. (10:41 AM) jimbo_320: anyone else long here? (10:41 AM) BrainStorm: thats why T & Vic recommend tight stops on it (10:41 AM) donsuelo: Clinton:.....Violation = Penetration=Depends on what is..is (10:41 AM) BrainStorm: standing aside Jimbo (10:42 AM) dbphoenix: According to the charts she provides, she defines it as a violation of the pullback low. Makes sense to me, so that's what I use. (10:42 AM) dave_b_quik: LOL don (10:42 AM) Orprepus: lol (10:42 AM) jimbo_320: needs to find new buyers here (10:42 AM) ppusa: this could be the place to go long???my 25 pt PnF is preventing me (10:42 AM) BrainStorm: hehe not managed to find those though sent an email this am (10:43 AM) skyprince_1: 2b...signals reversal...right? Well boys and girls...it doesn't seem to work all the time... (10:43 AM) jimbo_320: you guys are saying long and i'm already up 4 es.. (10:43 AM) jimbo_320: sold half +4 (10:44 AM) dave_b_quik: you da man jimbo (10:44 AM) BrainStorm: that makes much more sense to me DB intuitivly it's just not how Vic define it or its shown on dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart. Thats why I was confused....wont be sell orders above the last swing high I would have thought (10:45 AM) dave_b_quik: db, for a 1-2-3 T uses a violation of the pullback low (point "3") (10:46 AM) dbphoenix: Not trying to be difficult, BS, but one defined a 2B as a drop below the low of the swing high bar, he'd never be in a position to buy dips. (10:46 AM) dbphoenix: but "if" one (10:47 AM) BrainStorm: Agree but the way I recount it is how Sperandeo describes it. There will be stops below bars in an uptrend. Dont know what edition I have but I can assure you thats what it says (10:47 AM) BrainStorm: So I agree with you in principle that the 2B as described is a little odd (10:47 AM) dave_b_quik: i have Sperandeo's first book right here... (10:48 AM) dbphoenix: But why would you buy dips in an uptrend if you think the trend has changed? (10:48 AM) BrainStorm: you sell the 2B in an uptrend (10:48 AM) dbphoenix: So as soon as you have a bar that fails to exceed the previous bar, you exit the position? (10:49 AM) dave_b_quik: "in an uptrend, if a higher high is made but fails to carry through, and then prices drop below the previous high, then the trend is apt to reverse." { (10:49 AM) dave_b_quik: [sperandeo] (10:49 AM) BrainStorm: exactly have the passage here also (10:49 AM) BrainStorm: ] (10:49 AM) BrainStorm: however I do agree with DB the stops are likely to be under bars in an uptrend not above them (10:49 AM) dbphoenix: So every bar that fails to make a new high is a 2B. (10:50 AM) ppusa: jimbo still long? (10:50 AM) jimbo_320: y (10:50 AM) dave_b_quik: so db, for you every downbar is a 2B? (10:50 AM) skyprince_1: Deceptively simple when put that way Dave... (10:50 AM) jimbo_320: 1/2 position (10:51 AM) dbphoenix: According to the definition you provided, any bar that fails to exceed the previous bar is a 2B. That doesn't make any sense to me. (10:51 AM) dave_b_quik: no (10:51 AM) BrainStorm: what he is saying if after a retracement the rpice dosent stay above the last swing high it is likely to reverse (10:51 AM) ppusa: would like to see a 1-2-3 on 15 minute chart which so far hasn't happened (10:51 AM) dave_b_quik: nothing to do with the previous bar, db (10:51 AM) BrainStorm: previous swing high (10:51 AM) ppusa: that would give me the 25 point drop (10:52 AM) ppusa: take out these pullback lows, then newhigh (10:52 AM) dbphoenix: You said "if prices drop below the previous high". If the previous bar was the high and the next bar does not exceed that high, then the second bar would be a 2B. (10:52 AM) dave_b_quik: high = swing hi (10:52 AM) dave_b_quik: not last bar (10:53 AM) BrainStorm: Jimbo might I ask your original entry again ? (10:53 AM) dbphoenix: If the previous bar was the swing high, then. The following bar would then be a 2B since it dropped below that high. (10:53 AM) jimbo_320: 94 1/4 (10:54 AM) BrainStorm: thanks Jimbo (10:54 AM) skyprince_1: Retro getting chopped....standing aside... (10:54 AM) dave_b_quik: db, there is no swing high until there's a retracement (10:54 AM) BrainStorm: DB the piccy on dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart makes it easier to explain (10:54 AM) ppusa: see this drop (10:54 AM) jimbo_320: flat now (10:55 AM) ppusa: hasn't broken yet but hopefully will (10:55 AM) jimbo_320: hope for 1100 re test (10:55 AM) jimbo_320: hoped (10:55 AM) ppusa: question is what kind of drop could result if break these lows (10:55 AM) BrainStorm: Jimbo you nailed the bottom how did you manage that ? (10:56 AM) jimbo_320: it was heads LOL (10:56 AM) dbphoenix: A swing high is the high of a bar whose high is higher than the bars on either side of it. Therefore, according to the Sperandeo definition provided, the bar after the swing high bar would be a 2B since the high of that bar would be below the high of the swing high bar. (10:56 AM) BrainStorm: reversal on the 1min ? (10:57 AM) jimbo_320: guessed thats where buyers would be (10:58 AM) BrainStorm: true db what he dosent say but the picture show is that the price must move back up above the SH and then fail to hold (10:58 AM) ppusa: eight up hours in a row (10:58 AM) BrainStorm: you need to get some sleep then ppusa (10:58 AM) dave_b_quik: no, db, it didn't become a swing high until the downbar was completed, and then needs to retest the swing high AFTER a retracement of at least 1 bar before it becomes a potential 2B (10:58 AM) jimbo_320: maybe should of kept that 1/2 position (10:59 AM) Buffy_04364: morning guys - art busy for a bit so thought I would stop in :-) (10:59 AM) dbphoenix: Sorry. I was using the definition provided at your site. (10:59 AM) BrainStorm: hi buffy (10:59 AM) Tom_B: hi (10:59 AM) dave_b_quik: do i need to reword it, db? (11:00 AM) BrainStorm: ES cleaner again today (11:00 AM) jimbo_320: good volume til now (11:00 AM) ppusa: Dave could you add a slash 2T to 2B? (11:00 AM) ppusa: 2B/2T (11:01 AM) skyprince_1: Yeah....volume dropping off... (11:01 AM) dbphoenix: The definition I typed in was what is provided. If that's not the definition being used, then a change would be helpful. (11:01 AM) BrainStorm: I should switch to ES likely as not mess it up for you :-) (11:01 AM) skyprince_1: I need to learn to knit! (11:01 AM) dave_b_quik: 2B doesn't come from double bottom, but from 1-2-3 (1-2B-3) and can be either a 2B top or 2B bottom... (11:02 AM) BrainStorm: dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart ha the quote from vic in the popup maybe the main body text is differnt (11:02 AM) dbphoenix: Using a minimum number of pullback bars and a retest is more in keeping with Sperandeo. (11:02 AM) dave_b_quik: i used to think 2B meant double bottom until Teresa enlightened me (11:02 AM) hawki: jimbo, can u please give number for r1 on es (11:03 AM) jimbo_320: 93.8 (11:03 AM) dbphoenix: However, I maintain that you have to make a lower high and a lower low. Otherwise you'd be put in the position of trying to short an uptrend and you'd never buy the dips. (11:03 AM) ppusa: hitting 15 minute ma right here on nq (11:03 AM) hawki: thanks (11:03 AM) skyprince_1: enlightenment....I want some of that too! (11:03 AM) Orprepus: 1093.80 is whar I have (11:04 AM) dave_b_quik: right, db, have to have a retracement and a retest that fails (11:04 AM) dbphoenix: But how do you define "failure"? (11:05 AM) BrainStorm: subjective but 'drops below the previous swing high' Paltalk: Your friends are just a click away! Press the invite button NOW! (11:05 AM) BrainStorm: incidentaly I prefer MSH (Market Structure High) (11:06 AM) dave_b_quik: trader vic defines it as failure to hold above the previous swing high, Teresa goes further by requiring failure to hold above the low of the last "poke" bar (bar that straddles a line from the previous swing high) (11:06 AM) dbphoenix: Anyway, I wanted to ask you about a comment you made yesterday about the opening bar. You said that you wouldn't have gone long on that bar because it was below the 20p, though the reversal made a long entry okay. Is that a new rule? That to go long the bar has to close above the 20p? (11:06 AM) BrainStorm: T's makes much more sense to me (11:06 AM) dave_b_quik: no, db, i was just wrong (11:07 AM) dbphoenix: So you're not using MAs at all in determining whether to go long or short? (11:07 AM) dave_b_quik: only on the first trade (11:07 AM) dbphoenix: Right. The first trade. (11:07 AM) dave_b_quik: and a 2B reversal changes the trend for retro (11:07 AM) BrainStorm: anyway apologies for being argumentative....trying to keep myself out of this sorta sideways action (11:08 AM) dbphoenix: The bar has to close above the 20p to go long? (11:08 AM) dave_b_quik: i didn't notice, brains (11:08 AM) BrainStorm: worked well though did have one small chip mid debate (11:08 AM) dave_b_quik: on the 5m, db (11:08 AM) BrainStorm: hehe you missed the bulk of it dave (11:10 AM) dave_b_quik: sorry (11:10 AM) dbphoenix: Sorry, you're losing me. You said that the price below the 20p is being used to indicate trend, that if it's below the MA, the trend is down. That refers to the first 5m bar only? (11:11 AM) hanksterr: dave just for clarity what is the price of the high of the previous swing high for 5min nq (11:11 AM) dave_b_quik: yesterday the 3rd 5m bar closed below the 20EMA, which would have prevented going long, but there was a 2B reversal too, so that changed retro's bias to long (11:12 AM) dave_b_quik: i didn't see it until ann pointed it out (11:12 AM) dbphoenix: So you make a distinction between the 3rd 5m bar and the 1st 15m bar? (11:12 AM) dave_b_quik: just that we've been using the 20EMA on the 5m chart (11:13 AM) BrainStorm: THAT WAS QUITE SAVAGE (11:13 AM) BrainStorm: oops shouting (11:13 AM) jimbo_320: PARDON !! (11:13 AM) dbphoenix: So if the first 5m bar is below the MA, you don't go long and if it's above, you don't go short? (11:14 AM) dave_b_quik: well since the order is place at 9:45 it's the 3rd 5m bar (11:14 AM) dave_b_quik: but yes (11:15 AM) dbphoenix: Ok. So if the third 5m bar is below the MA, you don't go long, and if it's above, you don't go short? (11:15 AM) dave_b_quik: right (11:15 AM) dbphoenix: Whew! (11:15 AM) jimbo_320: taking early lunch, back later, watch out 4 the chop (11:16 AM) hanksterr: dave just for clarity what is the price of the high of the previous swing high for 5min nq is it 1371.50 (11:16 AM) dbphoenix: Will you be adding that to the entry rules? (11:16 AM) dave_b_quik: it's not there? sorry (11:17 AM) dave_b_quik: it was added for the convenience of the people trying to program the system (11:17 AM) dave_b_quik: in the rules it just says "first trade only with the trend" (11:17 AM) dbphoenix: I don't see any mention of MAs there. But it makes sense. (11:17 AM) dave_b_quik: but the programmers needed something they could hang their hat on (11:18 AM) skyprince_1: dave, db...nice discussion...helps feret out nuances...thnks. (11:18 AM) dave_b_quik: all the rules are subject to change after further testing... (11:18 AM) skyprince_1: Someone kick Globex machine please.... (11:18 AM) hanksterr: dave did you see my question at 11:15 (11:19 AM) dbphoenix: As for the 2B, we'll just have to disagree. Whatever works. (11:19 AM) dave_b_quik: hank, looks like 1371 here (11:20 AM) Shadows in dust: no body talks??????? (11:20 AM) dave_b_quik: LOL db (11:20 AM) hanksterr: thanks just want to be sure still real hazy definitions (11:20 AM) skyprince_1: I wish there were a rule in retro that would grab many of these strong momentum moves in first 15 minutes...like this AM... (11:21 AM) dave_b_quik: just buy LOD and sell HOD would be nice (11:21 AM) skyprince_1: I jumped in and felt guilty....flying with no instruments! (11:21 AM) dbphoenix: That would be tought, sky. It's real easy to get screwed when trying to trade during those first few minutes. (11:22 AM) ann_87: db do you have trader vic book? (11:22 AM) dbphoenix: Just the first one. (11:22 AM) skyprince_1: db..I know....most days wouldn't be good....but some have great moves early....then stall....like today. (11:22 AM) ann_87: wht name is it? (11:23 AM) BrainStorm: Trader Vic Methods of A Wall Street Master (11:23 AM) dbphoenix: Methods of a Wall Street Master. If you don't mind, tho, I'd like to drop this 2B discussion. Without charts, it's just too difficult to make a point. (11:23 AM) BrainStorm: agree (11:23 AM) dave_b_quik: can you post, db? (11:23 AM) BrainStorm: one for the mailing list perhaps db ? (11:24 AM) ann_87: same book db , just wanted to only point out page 79 and 80 (11:24 AM) dbphoenix: I can attach something to an email for the Yahoo site. (11:24 AM) skyprince_1: db...great! (11:24 AM) BrainStorm: tempted to play the bands for a bit (11:24 AM) dave_b_quik: great, db (11:25 AM) jimmer49: Just got back from my meeting. Lucky me, just in time to watch chop. (11:25 AM) BrainStorm: should stay here I guess (11:25 AM) BrainStorm: hehe hows that for getting a BO (11:25 AM) dbphoenix: Yes, I know, Ann. But it's not enough to define failure as a drop below the low of the swing high bar unless there is also a drop below the low of the retracement bar(s). Otherwise, you'd never buy a dip in an uptrend. (11:25 AM) skyprince_1: 2b failed I guess, huh? (11:25 AM) dbphoenix: It's just a difference of opinion based on experience, not so much the book. (11:26 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, sky, no followthrough, a failed failure (11:26 AM) dbphoenix: If you're asking me, sky, no. Not till we get a higher high. (11:26 AM) dave_b_quik: true, db (11:26 AM) skyprince_1: ok...ic.... (11:26 AM) dbphoenix: You mean we agree? (11:27 AM) dave_b_quik: LOL (11:27 AM) skyprince_1: So...at 1383 (11:27 AM) dbphoenix: Made my day. Debates make me nervous. Too easy to turn in to arguments. (11:27 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, hate that, somebody might think i know something (11:28 AM) dbphoenix: Given what you've done with retro, you know a hell of a lot. (11:28 AM) dave_b_quik: LOL, just trying (11:28 AM) BrainStorm: debating with strangers gota be even more careful (11:28 AM) dbphoenix: As for the early morning thing, that's a problem. (11:28 AM) dave_b_quik: the first trade? ya (11:29 AM) dbphoenix: What I wanted to ask before the open was whether the fact that we were above the 20p would preclude going short. (11:29 AM) BrainStorm: but as it's all subjective not worth arguing about (11:29 AM) skyprince_1: Debate is healthy guys! Just don't take any of it personally. (11:29 AM) dbphoenix: First bar, that is. (11:29 AM) dave_b_quik: i've been using the last 5m close before the order is entered, so 3rd bar (11:30 AM) dbphoenix: But since that was above the 20p, you would not have gone short this morning. (11:30 AM) dave_b_quik: right (11:30 AM) dbphoenix: Thx. (11:31 AM) BrainStorm: rules out taking a gap close (11:31 AM) BrainStorm: unless it closes in first 15 mins and then resues the 'trend' (11:31 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, that's a problem with rules (11:32 AM) BrainStorm: I like the idea of before going long see a bottom put in on say the 1 min (11:32 AM) dbphoenix: As to the subjectivity, BS, the main problem with Sperandeo is that his definition is sketchy and his chart examples are not clear. Based on experience, I prefer to see the retracement low broken. That far more often results in a change of trend, tho not necessarily a reversal of trend, than does a simple failure to make a new high. Today is a good example. (11:32 AM) BrainStorm: that is likely what you would do if trading descresionary (11:33 AM) BrainStorm: I agree db for the reason I said the sell stops will be below bars not above them (11:33 AM) BrainStorm: That is why T's version is better imo (11:33 AM) ppusa: what is going on here? (11:34 AM) BrainStorm: having said that I have watched niether for long as its a new patter to me (11:34 AM) BrainStorm: in answer ppusa we are being chopped up ? (11:35 AM) dave_b_quik: wow, how did lunch time creep up on me so quick? Paltalk: Go bannerless and support PalTalk! Subscribe today! Only $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (11:35 AM) BrainStorm: all this arguing errrm healthy debate (11:36 AM) dbphoenix: But that's the problem, BS. If there's a change in trend, you don't buy dips. In fact, you look to go short. If there's no change in trend, you buy the dips. Therefore, you have to have something that defines a change in trend. In my experience, a failure to make a new high, in and of itself, does not do that. (11:36 AM) skyprince_1: Still breakfast time here.... (11:36 AM) dave_b_quik: west coast? (11:36 AM) skyprince_1: yep..Seattle (11:36 AM) BrainStorm: Agree on that too db 2B seems risky as it trys to anticipate (11:37 AM) dbphoenix: Anyway, in terms of a discretionary entry, one could have placed a buystop above the premarket high. But the problem with those early entries is that you can wind up with a bad fill with a market order, or no fill at all with a limit order. (11:37 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, but when it works, YAHOO (11:37 AM) dave_b_quik: i meant the 2B (11:37 AM) ppusa: ftse went negative (11:37 AM) ppusa: last 20 minutes (11:38 AM) ppusa: heading south??? (11:38 AM) BrainStorm: Its a little bit like Ross Hooks (retracements) in a trend you would add on these if they fail they become 1-2-3's. So 1-2 is a nice correction to get on board if the 3 comes you are reversing all very tricky (11:39 AM) skyprince_1: There's a magent in 1360-1370 range NQ....it can't seem to kick out this range...either way... (11:39 AM) skyprince_1: magnet (11:39 AM) dbphoenix: Sort of. I like his definitions of swing hghs and lows, tho I wish he'd used something other than 123 to describe them. (11:40 AM) dave_b_quik: another term with too many definitions (11:40 AM) BrainStorm: I like em too you can apply them completely mechanicaly (11:40 AM) BrainStorm: in a lot of instances they are 'faster' than Vic's as they can occur before the trend line is broken (11:42 AM) BrainStorm: My problem is I cant find any tradeable pattern on the NQ up to 15 mins (11:42 AM) BrainStorm: rtro is standing aside at the moment ? (11:42 AM) dave_b_quik: maybe the 30 tic traders can do something with this, but not me (11:43 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, BS (11:43 AM) dbphoenix: Take yesterday, for example. I would have considered the test of the 2B to be the retracement high on the 5m, which was around 1255. Without taking that out, the index could easily have turned south. But by taking that out, the index showed a bias to the upside. This was especially important since the first impulse the following morning was to push below the previous day's low at 1246. (11:44 AM) dbphoenix: One could have gotten in earlier, of course, and hope that his stops would save him, but I prefer the extra insurance. (11:44 AM) dbphoenix: That's also why I'm careful in my own mind to distinguish between a potential 2B or 1-2-3 and a confirmed one. (11:45 AM) jimbo_320: 2B now on dow (11:45 AM) dbphoenix: Dave, about retro. Do you have regularly scheduled sessions when you go over it all with charts? (11:46 AM) dave_b_quik: not regularly scheduled, but we've had a couple of jam sessions and can do more (11:46 AM) dbphoenix: How would I know when these occur? (11:47 AM) dave_b_quik: i'll post it to the mail list and to the bulletin board at dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com (11:47 AM) dbphoenix: Okay. Thanks. (11:47 AM) skyprince_1: I vote for more! Love em! (11:48 AM) dave_b_quik: OK, i've just been kinda overworked lately on the 2nd shift (11:48 AM) ann_87: 1359 a 5 mn trader vic 1 2 3? (11:48 AM) dbphoenix: That's why it's probably not a good idea to have a regularly scheduled discussion. (11:49 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, ann, i see it (11:49 AM) skyprince_1: Yes ann,,,I think it is... (11:50 AM) dbphoenix: On the 5m, you'd have to drop below 1360 (11:50 AM) skyprince_1: yes (11:51 AM) dave_b_quik: or it could just bounce back into triangle land (11:51 AM) BrainStorm: tempted long for a scalp across the range but why ? (11:51 AM) dbphoenix: Should have taken that last 15m bar. Not paying attention to business today. These long consolidations really take your eye off the ball. (11:52 AM) BrainStorm: dont they just (11:53 AM) BrainStorm: are you trading retro db ? (11:54 AM) dbphoenix: This might serve as a good example of what I'm talking about with regard to change of trend vs reversal of trend since everybody's looking at it. We've failed to make a new high for nearly two hours, but we haven't violated the retracement low. Therefore, we've gone sideways instead of down. If we do violate that retracement low, we'll be more likely to continue to the downside. (11:54 AM) dbphoenix: I'm still just looking at it, BS. I like the fact that it has an internal logic, which most systems don't have. I also like the fact that it's not a black or gray box. (11:57 AM) dbphoenix: I've been reading the stuff that people have been working on. At the website, that is. Filters and best hours to trade and tweaks and so on. I think it would be interesting to incorporate pre-market activity rather than wait for the opening. (11:58 AM) jimmer49: I second the motion there, db. (11:59 AM) dbphoenix: As to the volume stuff, I'll have to leave that up to people with more experience in trading illiquid markets. Since I don't, I really have no idea if the difficulties are real or are just in my head. (11:59 AM) skyprince_1: Pre-market?? UGH! I'd have to move east! (12:00 PM) dbphoenix: No, I'm not talking about trading premarket. I mean using the premarket pattern, esp the high and low. For example, this morning, one could have placed a buystop above the 15m bar immediately preceding the open. (12:01 PM) skyprince_1: db....I just wonder about strength of those moves with such low volume. (12:01 PM) dbphoenix: Could also have bracketed it with a stop loss below that bar. It only had a five or six-point range. (12:01 PM) dbphoenix: If you bracket the bar, it shouldn't matter. Opening volume is always good. (12:01 PM) skyprince_1: yes... (12:02 PM) dbphoenix: Plus you don't have to worry about gap openings. (12:02 PM) skyprince_1: This is AGONY! I'm going for coffee....UGH! Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. (12:05 PM) wotten: Hello...can someone tell me where to get Ensign support on paltalk? (12:06 PM) dave_b_quik: they have a chatroom (12:06 PM) ann_87: IB 5 nq (12:06 PM) Orprepus: ensign software room under business & finance (12:06 PM) Orprepus: think howard is there now (12:06 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, ensign is online now (12:07 PM) dbphoenix: Is it Ensign Windows Users? (12:07 PM) Orprepus: yes (12:07 PM) wotten: i don't see the room (12:07 PM) dbphoenix: There's one person there. It's under Business and Finance. (12:07 PM) Orprepus: got to go towards bottom (12:07 PM) dave_b_quik: you can alphabetize the list by clicking on the heading (12:07 PM) dbphoenix: It's an unlocked room. (12:07 PM) wotten: yes i did that (12:08 PM) dave_b_quik: under business/finance (12:08 PM) wotten: ok got it (12:08 PM) wotten: ty (12:08 PM) dbphoenix: Do we get karma points for being helpful? (12:08 PM) dave_b_quik: i'm sure (12:09 PM) Orprepus: absolutely - pay it forward (12:09 PM) dave_b_quik: db, do you use ensign? (12:09 PM) dbphoenix: No. (12:10 PM) dbphoenix: Over the years, I've got rid of more and more stuff. (12:10 PM) ann_87: so are we just going to consolidate 140 pt move by going sideways? (12:11 PM) dbphoenix: As long as you're here, Dave, are you defining the range on the 5m as 1360 to 1377, and you'd do nothing until we get out of that one way or the other on the 5m? (12:11 PM) dbphoenix: Though I suppose one could manufacture a triangle if he really wanted to. (12:14 PM) dbphoenix: Guess Dave went out for donuts. (12:14 PM) jimmer49: macd buy currently working (12:14 PM) jimmer49: 5 min (12:15 PM) dbphoenix: Thank you, jimmer. (12:15 PM) jimmer49: limited potential, but wanted to mention anyway (12:15 PM) dbphoenix: Ditto on ES, I suppose. (12:16 PM) dave_b_quik: sorry, fading fast, but i just posted the NQ5m triangle i'm watching (12:17 PM) dbphoenix: Nap time? (12:18 PM) dave_b_quik: gonna have a bite to eat and move on to my construction projects (12:19 PM) dbphoenix: Where do you have the chart posted. (12:19 PM) dave_b_quik: at www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com (12:19 PM) dave_b_quik: under today's date (12:19 PM) dbphoenix: Under the date? (12:19 PM) dave_b_quik: y (12:20 PM) dbphoenix: Not opening for some reason. The one labelled dloomis2? (12:21 PM) dave_b_quik: dbq_NQ5m triangle (12:21 PM) dbphoenix: Sorry. I don't know what day it is. Jeez. (12:21 PM) dbphoenix: Yeah, that's pretty much what I drew, exc that my bottom line is angled upward below that 1315 bar. (12:22 PM) dave_b_quik: that'll work (12:23 PM) BrainStorm: taking a break for 1/2hour later (12:23 PM) dbphoenix: Make that 1362 (maybe I'm the one who needs a nap). But your line is good too. (12:24 PM) dbphoenix: Somebody suggested not long ago that using swing lows and swing highs is best for drawing triangles and wedges. I'd never really thought about it, but it makes sense. (12:26 PM) Buffy_04364: use bars that stick up by themselves to do it dbp (12:26 PM) Buffy_04364: or down (12:26 PM) dbphoenix: Given the gains the last two days, I'd've expected some consolidation. I wonder if today will be enough or if we'll have to sit thru consolidation tomorrow as well. (12:26 PM) Buffy_04364: plenty of examples in the buffy folder (12:27 PM) Buffy_04364: miss being here (12:27 PM) Buffy_04364: maybe tomorrow (12:27 PM) Buffy_04364: hope things are going well with everyone (12:27 PM) Buffy_04364: this is sure a chop (12:27 PM) Buffy_04364: :-( (12:27 PM) dbphoenix: Those should qualify swing highs and lows as well. (12:27 PM) skyprince_1: Hi Buffy....going well..thx (12:28 PM) Buffy_04364: yes they do dbp (12:28 PM) Buffy_04364: great sky (12:28 PM) dbphoenix: I've seen some really peculiar wedges being drawn. (12:28 PM) Buffy_04364: pyra coming to time line (12:29 PM) jimbo_320: retro missed opening trade today? (12:29 PM) dbphoenix: Are we preparing for a 1230 move? (12:29 PM) Buffy_04364: hi jimbo (12:29 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, jimbo (12:29 PM) jimbo_320: hi buffy (12:30 PM) jimbo_320: no often all action occurs in first 15mins (12:30 PM) jimbo_320: not (12:30 PM) dbphoenix: That's why I suggested looking at pre-market patterns in some way. (12:31 PM) jimbo_320: u trade the open dbp ? (12:31 PM) jimbo_320: i mean premarket (12:32 PM) dbphoenix: I don't trade premarket, but I use it to get some idea of where sentiment lies. I've never placed buy or sell stops based on the premarket high or low, but I can't think of any reason not to. (12:33 PM) dbphoenix: I don't know where it is, but somewhere above I talked about using the last 15m bar before the open as a possible buy/sell bar. (12:33 PM) jimmer49: db - have you looked back to see how that would have worked? (12:34 PM) dbphoenix: This morning, for example, the buystop would have been at 1340 and the sell stop at 133350. (12:34 PM) dbphoenix: I keep daily notes, but I haven't kept stats. (12:34 PM) jimmer49: sounds worthy of some serious review (12:34 PM) dave_b_quik: ya Paltalk: Are banners a bummer and popups a pain? Cure your banner blues NOW for $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then select Bannerless PalTalk to subscribe now! No banners! No Popups! Fast video in all groups! (12:36 PM) dbphoenix: Ordinarily I wouldn't bother, but since the eminis never stop trading, the only difference is that initial volume pop. As long as one protects himself from a serious reversal somehow, he should be okay. It's either that or just sit there watching the bars march with no available entry. (12:36 PM) dbphoenix: Except just jumping in, that is. (12:36 PM) jimbo_320: sometimes that is the only way :-) (12:37 PM) BrainStorm: often a reversal within the first 5-20 (12:37 PM) dbphoenix: Seems that way. I just don't have the cojones anymore. (12:38 PM) dbphoenix: That's true, BS. I would not have been at all surprised at a retest of the gap. But no go. At least by using the PM 15m bar, one would not be in the position of trying to jump on board a moving train. (12:38 PM) BrainStorm: I missed the am move too mind you! (12:38 PM) dbphoenix: By "gap" I mean on the daily charts. There was no gap between PM and the open. (12:38 PM) jimbo_320: werent we 1100 nq a little while back, some people have made big bucks now 1375, 275 points (12:38 PM) BrainStorm: no reall pull back to get on (12:39 PM) jimmer49: the question would be how wide a stop to use (12:39 PM) dbphoenix: There was one itty-bitty 1m bar, BS. (12:39 PM) jimbo_320: 130 points on es (12:39 PM) dbphoenix: You mean using the last PM bar? (12:39 PM) jimmer49: y (12:40 PM) BrainStorm: yes I see it (12:41 PM) dbphoenix: Well, the last PM 15m bar on the es was very narrow. Little more than a point. But you could set the stops wherever you like. Maybe a 5 or 10pt bracket? (12:41 PM) jimmer49: top or bottom of last pm bar could be used as a stop unless the bar were too large (12:41 PM) BrainStorm: ppusa you there ? (12:42 PM) dbphoenix: In the case of the es, I should think it would be too narrow. One might have set a buystop just above 109025, then a sell stop n points below that (the low of the bar was only 1089). (12:43 PM) dbphoenix: As for large PM bars, they're pretty rare. There's not that much volatility. (12:43 PM) dbphoenix: NQ stalling at top of triangle. (12:44 PM) dbphoenix: I should think that 5 points should be enough. I guess I'll have to start looking at it more methodically. (12:44 PM) BrainStorm: was looking for a short scalp but the range is too narrow to make it worthwhile I rekon (12:45 PM) BrainStorm: and the volume is so light it could be poped in either direction fairly easily (12:46 PM) jimmer49: Well, I am certainly going to look at it. Like you, db, I have been skittish about trading the open, but frustrated at what I have missed. (12:47 PM) dbphoenix: Partly depends on whether there are any shadows or not. If it's a shaved top, could set the buystop above the bar and the sell stop at the bottom, or 5 points, whichever is greater. If it's a doji, set the stops at the high/low as long as the bar is at least 5 points long. Or one could make it ten points, which would give more time for cancelling the order entirely if it looks like there's a lot of craziness. (12:47 PM) BrainStorm: would you want to trade a Doji ? (12:48 PM) dbphoenix: If it was at least five points long, probably. Like I said, I'll have to start looking at this stuff more deliberately. (12:48 PM) BrainStorm: I say short scalp and we get a pop (12:49 PM) BrainStorm: contrarian indicator me (12:49 PM) dbphoenix: Or you could bracket the doji and set the stops more than one tick above the high/low. Or use the high/low of the range back to some point. (12:49 PM) BrainStorm: actually a bo of a djoi is probaably a good one to take (12:52 PM) dbphoenix: I don't know if there can be rules about it. If it were an IB, I might want to use the range of the previous bar. There might be rules eventually, but I don't know if there would be enough people interested to test all the variables. (12:52 PM) dbphoenix: Don't know how much longer we can rely on this buy program/short covering dynamic. (12:56 PM) dbphoenix: If the PM bar were used, the rules would have to be extremely simple. Just look at how few rules Dave has for retro. Simple, simple, simple. And trader wisdom says that the simplest systems tend to do the best. (12:58 PM) BrainStorm: definately...you could arhue that retro is in danger of becoming too complicated with filters etc. (01:00 PM) BrainStorm: HoD NQ (01:00 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, i wish we cud make retro simpler (01:00 PM) dbphoenix: It's natural and desirable for people to experiment with filters when developing a system. Most won't matter enough to be worth it. But one filter is often a plus. (01:01 PM) BrainStorm: shame simple am crosses arent tradable (01:01 PM) dbphoenix: For example, Nison for one says that you have to use at least a support/resistance filter with candles. Otherwise the meaning of the bar is pretty much lost. (01:01 PM) BrainStorm: am= ma (01:01 PM) dbphoenix: Or a MACD XO combined with a support/resistance filter. (01:02 PM) dbphoenix: More than one, tho, and you run into the data-mining problem. (01:03 PM) jimmer49: Working on that macd thing db - has real potential (01:03 PM) BrainStorm: publish! (01:04 PM) jimmer49: macd cross would have gotten the opening trade today (01:04 PM) dbphoenix: Seems like that particular signal is heavily influenced by time of day. (01:04 PM) jimmer49: Soon BS (01:05 PM) jimmer49: Trying to get down to some very simple rules. Paltalk: Multivideo has been activated in all Paltalk groups!!! With Paltalk 4.0 (available from our beta link on our homepage), you can see up to three people in every group. Paltalk Plus subscribers can see people in full motion video. (01:05 PM) BrainStorm: the open is still a 'special' event I am suspicious that whatver you try to do to catch thos early moves is likely to bash you often too. If stops are tight shouldnt be a probelm (01:06 PM) skyprince_1: Agree BS (01:06 PM) dbphoenix: One problem I have with retro is defining "current" bar. If it's not finished yet, one has to use the previous bar. But if it's already forming above the high of the previous bar, you're then chasing the bar. (01:07 PM) BrainStorm: though stops for the open are tricky in themselves e.g. no volatility todays open other days you'll wip around a bazillion points (01:07 PM) BrainStorm: Jimbo must be long ! (01:08 PM) skyprince_1: db.....just mindlessly adhere to the rules....don't question it....IMO (01:08 PM) elly_34: very pretty (01:08 PM) elly_34: good mornign everyone, haven't been around last few days,,,hope all is well here (01:08 PM) dbphoenix: That's the problem, sky. There's no rule. (01:09 PM) BrainStorm: just look at the NAZ & Im on the side :-( (01:09 PM) dave_b_quik: see if ES can bust out here (01:09 PM) jimmer49: Hi Elly (01:09 PM) skyprince_1: Long retro with an add....feelin good.... (01:09 PM) elly_34: hi jimmer (01:09 PM) BrainStorm: didnt have the balls to take the signal cause it was in a range (01:10 PM) dave_b_quik: waytago, sky (01:10 PM) dbphoenix: I took the breakout from the triangle we drew. (01:10 PM) dave_b_quik: me too, on the retro entry (01:12 PM) dbphoenix: I'm finding, tho, that this business with the "current" 15m bar is troublesome. I'm having to go to the 5m and use 3-bar segments to avoid chasing the bar. (01:12 PM) dbphoenix: In other words, I'm using "a" 15m bar, but not "the" 15m bar, if that makes any sense. (01:12 PM) jimbo_320: csco from 11 to 16.1 in 6 days (01:13 PM) dave_b_quik: same bottom line? (01:13 PM) dbphoenix: Me? (01:13 PM) dave_b_quik: cisco must be worth something (01:13 PM) dave_b_quik: y (01:13 PM) dbphoenix: What do you mean "bottom line"? (01:13 PM) dave_b_quik: same results? (01:14 PM) dbphoenix: Don't know yet. But at least I'm getting in rather than having to chase the bar. (01:14 PM) skyprince_1: I stupidly took the 15m breakout at 1370...dumb luck I guess.... (01:14 PM) jimbo_320: etrade up 16% (01:15 PM) jimbo_320: i think people are covering their internet shorts, amzn +10, ebay +7, [cln +9, aol +5.5 (01:16 PM) dbphoenix: Before intraday charts were available, a trader suggested to me that I alter my day. Rather than close to close or open to open, make it 1000 to 1000 or lunch to lunch. It would provide a different perspective and enable me better to see where the strength and weakness lie. When intraday charts became available, I understood what he meant, because you can use any beginning and ending point you like. (01:16 PM) jimbo_320: what happened to goto.com bought out? (01:16 PM) jam_27: i have 1100 as rst. on ES , is that right? (01:16 PM) dbphoenix: Ditto with the bars. A 15m bar can be defined as any grouping of three consecutive 5m bars, rather than defining it by the clock. (01:17 PM) dbphoenix: For example, a 15m bar can be 0905 to 0920, rather than 0900 to 0915. (01:17 PM) jimbo_320: wow take a look at the red hots, 20 % gains all round (01:17 PM) dbphoenix: Or whatever. (01:17 PM) jimbo_320: jdsu +20% (01:17 PM) jimmer49: that 5 min macd buy back at 1150 has been a killer, but one would have had to hold thru that first down bar (01:18 PM) skyprince_1: exhaustion.....as T says? I think we need to go back down at some point in October... (01:19 PM) dbphoenix: That's going to be a problem, jimmer. Any thoughts on what to use to get out other than a stop? (01:19 PM) jimbo_320: you could buy jsdu for 5 bucks on 11th sept, now 9 bucks (01:19 PM) dave_b_quik: NQ 15m ADX is 60 (01:19 PM) skyprince_1: frothy (01:19 PM) dave_b_quik: you a surfer? (01:20 PM) jimmer49: I can think of nothing better than just letting the stop take you out and then be ready to reenter is resumes (01:20 PM) jimmer49: if (01:20 PM) skyprince_1: LOL! Nope.... (01:20 PM) dbphoenix: Do you use DMI at all? (01:20 PM) jimmer49: yes (01:20 PM) jimbo_320: maybe i should get back into stock trading (01:20 PM) dave_b_quik: i'm gonna have to look up what DMI is (01:21 PM) dave_b_quik: same as ADX? (01:21 PM) dbphoenix: Think about using a lower high on the DMI as a potential exit. (01:21 PM) dbphoenix: ADX is based on DMI. (01:21 PM) fredrickson: Directional Movement Index (01:21 PM) dbphoenix: It's the average of DMI+ and DMI-. (01:21 PM) dbphoenix: That's why DMI leads ADX. (01:22 PM) jimmer49: DMI that I use gave lower high at first down bar (01:23 PM) dbphoenix: ADX is comparable to the MACD histogram in that the way it looks depends on how far apart the two lines are. If they're far apart, the ADX rises. If they near, it falls. If they rope, it flattens. (01:23 PM) dbphoenix: What timeframe, jimmer. (01:23 PM) eemb: x21r are you there? (01:23 PM) skyprince_1: dave....retro says...out just below IB, right? (01:23 PM) ann_87: 3 ticks sky (01:23 PM) skyprince_1: thnks ann (01:23 PM) jimmer49: 5 min 13p dmi - actually I am using dmi histogrram (01:24 PM) jimbo_320: take a look at the chart of mmsi (01:24 PM) dave_b_quik: sky, 3 tics below IB (01:24 PM) dbphoenix: Is that another new rule, ann? (01:24 PM) skyprince_1: thnks dave.. (01:24 PM) skyprince_1: so this could be a continuation signal then.... (01:24 PM) ann_87: no db it is in the rules (01:24 PM) dbphoenix: The rules on the site say the 5m swing low. That's not correct? (01:25 PM) jimbo_320: semi at highs (01:25 PM) skyprince_1: IB takes precedence (01:25 PM) ann_87: db have you ever dbl clicked on the words that are highlighted, e.g inside bar etc. (01:25 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, 1 tick below swing low or 3 tics below inside bar, whichever is closer (01:25 PM) dbphoenix: No mention of IB in the exit rules. (01:25 PM) jimbo_320: intc 18 to 24.5 (01:25 PM) dave_b_quik: it's in there somewhere, db (01:25 PM) ann_87: also click on 2b example (01:25 PM) ann_87: and all the words highlighted (01:25 PM) ann_87: lots of info there (01:25 PM) skyprince_1: yes, it is there.... (01:26 PM) jimbo_320: surprising how good a lot of stock charts look (01:26 PM) fredrickson: jimbo what's the deal on mmsi...can't look now (01:26 PM) dbphoenix: Looking at it right now. No mention of IBs in the exit rules. (01:27 PM) dave_b_quik: might be in one of the popup links (01:27 PM) skyprince_1: Under reversal rules db (01:27 PM) jimbo_320: from 4 to 20 in 2 months (01:27 PM) skyprince_1: Reversal patterns...excuse me.. (01:27 PM) dbphoenix: No links in the exit rules. (01:27 PM) ann_87: click on IB (01:28 PM) fredrickson: wow ...really jimbo (01:28 PM) jimbo_320: big big gains on a lot of stocks today (01:28 PM) skyprince_1: QQQ volume is unreal! Level II is flying with huge size... (01:29 PM) jimbo_320: macafee +24% (01:30 PM) skyprince_1: Too much too fast me thinks.... (01:30 PM) jimbo_320: cien +21% (01:30 PM) jimbo_320: all today (01:31 PM) jimbo_320: i like to see the short interest on alot of those tech stocks (01:31 PM) ppusa: HOD plz (01:32 PM) jimbo_320: stock market playing catch up with futures (01:32 PM) ppusa: dow sp did not make new highs ...either there is a lot left to upside or be comiing down hard (01:32 PM) jimbo_320: 1700 compx coming up (01:33 PM) dbphoenix: As for the 2B, Ann, we'll just have to disagree on that one. (01:33 PM) jimbo_320: compx 5min looks like a net stock breakout :-) (01:33 PM) ppusa: any sell off today could be a setup for tomorrow's rally (01:34 PM) ppusa: late day profit taking get out weak longs (01:35 PM) ppusa: or maybe go straight to 1700 (01:35 PM) jimbo_320: qqq +7% today Paltalk: Click banners to visit our sponsors. (01:36 PM) ann_87: db i am just referring you to the site of retro and to the book.... reversal patterns in retro are what retro uses too to pull up stops to lock in profits... (01:36 PM) jimbo_320: me thinks 1100 break later (01:37 PM) jimbo_320: lets hope so :-) (01:37 PM) dbphoenix: I understand, Ann. However, that's not a reversal pattern. Again, we'll just have to disagree. (01:38 PM) ppusa: 1100 what SP or nq (01:38 PM) ann_87: it is retro rules ..so who are you disagreeing with lol (01:38 PM) jimbo_320: spoos, is retro long 86 1/2? (01:39 PM) dbphoenix: I understand that it's retro rules. However, it is not necessarily a reversal pattern per se. If I define X a certain way, that doesn't mean that X is what I believe it to be, nor does it mean that everyone must agree with my definition. (01:40 PM) dave_b_quik: retro is long 1376, 1381.5, and 1391 (01:40 PM) ann_87: right db... it is only something that is part of retro for now (01:40 PM) ann_87: and that is what his current stats are based on (01:41 PM) dbphoenix: Today, for example, we haven't had any 2Bs as I understand them, at least on the longer-term charts, and we haven't reversed. (01:41 PM) ann_87: that is all retro knows (01:41 PM) jimbo_320: lots of nice add signals today (01:42 PM) skyprince_1: dave....why wasn't first entry at 70? Why 76? There is a 15m breakout at 70... (01:42 PM) jimbo_320: wasnt 76 still within chop range ? (01:42 PM) dbphoenix: Retro is a work in progress. (01:43 PM) dave_b_quik: sky, i had retro sidelined after 2 earlier losses, waiting for a breakout from the 5m triangle i posted, so the next 15m breakout after that was 76 (01:43 PM) skyprince_1: Okay...thnks (01:43 PM) dave_b_quik: retro stopped out 91 on 5m 2B trigger (01:44 PM) dbphoenix: Dave, about that triangle. Would you consider entering on the 5m bar if the current 15m bar wasn't finished? (01:44 PM) skyprince_1: Yep, I got that too....nice run! (01:44 PM) jimbo_320: dave how as i supposed to program triangle breakouts ? impossible (01:44 PM) dbphoenix: "then" current, I mean. (01:44 PM) jimbo_320: how am (01:44 PM) ann_87: great trade dave! (01:45 PM) skyprince_1: It worked from 70....just riskier I suppose.... (01:45 PM) dave_b_quik: db, retro has to wait for a 15m bar breakout, but lotsa people buy the 5m too (but that's another system) (01:46 PM) skyprince_1: +32.5...nice! (01:46 PM) dbphoenix: If the 15m bar has a shaved top, tho, how do you get your order in before your buystop is already exceeded? (01:46 PM) dave_b_quik: a lot of times the first triangle breakout is a fakeout, so waiting for the 15m signal avoids some of those (01:47 PM) dave_b_quik: i think i used a limit order this time (01:47 PM) dbphoenix: That's what I mean. (01:47 PM) dbphoenix: If the 15m bar closes at the high, and the next one takes off from there, how do you get your order filled? (01:48 PM) dbphoenix: You have to know what the high of the bar is going to be before you make out the ticket. (01:48 PM) dave_b_quik: i got filled at 76, but you're right some of those fast moves you don't have a lot of time. Usually i use a STOP/LIMIT, but if the stop is already hit i'll put in a LIMIT and see if i get a fill (01:49 PM) jimbo_320: if you dont get filled do u skip the trade? (01:49 PM) dave_b_quik: yup. "oh well" (01:49 PM) dbphoenix: I'd like to suggest using 5m bars in groups of three, but that would really complicate the rules. Advantage, though, is that you may get at least one down bar. (01:50 PM) dbphoenix: That's what occurred at the triangle breakout. (01:51 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, i've thot about using 5m entries for when retro has missed the beginning of a move and is "chasing the market" too, since you get a much better entry (01:51 PM) skyprince_1: hmmmm...careful....KISS....:) (01:51 PM) dbphoenix: It's not really a 5m entry, tho. It's just starting the clock on the 15m bar in a different place. (01:52 PM) dave_b_quik: ok (01:52 PM) jimbo_320: surely nq must test 1400? (01:52 PM) Roger Schelling: 1st touch of the 1 min 200EMA ES (01:53 PM) skyprince_1: Short from 1389 (01:54 PM) dave_b_quik: good job, sky (01:54 PM) dbphoenix: Of course, that would mean throwing all your stats out the window, but from what little I know of how your mind works, you may find the option interesting. (01:54 PM) dave_b_quik: LOL, you mean 'cuz i have no brain, right? (01:55 PM) dave_b_quik: or retro has no brain at least (01:55 PM) skyprince_1: NO brain works...truly does (01:55 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, my brain gets in the way mostly (01:55 PM) dbphoenix: No. I'm very impressed with what you've done. (01:56 PM) dave_b_quik: i'm always tripping over my brain (01:56 PM) dbphoenix: And since you write well, it's relatively easy to pick up on your thought processes. (01:56 PM) dbphoenix: As opposed to something like Master Swing Trader. That's just plain scary. (01:57 PM) skyprince_1: I am still considering bankrolling a bunch of 15 year old video game nuts and turning them loose! I won't tell them it is real money...just keep them in new video games, and such.... (01:57 PM) dbphoenix: They're probably all daytrading, sky. (01:57 PM) skyprince_1: Out at 1386....+3 (01:57 PM) skyprince_1: LOL! (01:58 PM) dbphoenix: I got tripped at 1387 for +6. (01:58 PM) skyprince_1: kewl! (01:58 PM) dave_b_quik: my 9yo had a great day paper trading on Tuesday (01:58 PM) dbphoenix: So you said. (01:59 PM) dbphoenix: The author of one of my trading books (can't remember which one) said that children are far better at reading charts than adults are because they bring no expectations to the table. (01:59 PM) skyprince_1: Yes, a precocious 9yo would work too... (02:00 PM) dbphoenix: Any child, he says, can tell you the trend. (02:00 PM) dbphoenix: I got better at it, too, after taking all that junk off my charts. (02:00 PM) skyprince_1: I agree db...it is all the stuff we drag into the trading day that defeats us at times... (02:00 PM) dave_b_quik: LOL, me too (02:01 PM) skyprince_1: One mentor I had would say "get up, step back five steps and look at the chart..." (02:01 PM) dbphoenix: Daytrading is good experience for anyone who love indicators. After you consult them all, the trade is already over. (02:02 PM) dbphoenix: Yeah. Hang it on the wall and just back off. That's what I like about long-term 1m charts. All you see is the wave. (02:02 PM) dbphoenix: Or any intraday chart that's long term enough so you don't see the individual bars. (02:03 PM) skyprince_1: Jesse Livermore day traded in the 20's and 30's with no charts....just price action.... (02:03 PM) dbphoenix: He did keep a kind of PnF chart, tho. Sort of like a Darvas box. (02:04 PM) jimbo_320: dave get him/her to trade and each winner they get give them a choc bar, i bet he'll clean up (02:04 PM) skyprince_1: yes...true... (02:04 PM) skyprince_1: He'll get fat! (02:04 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, jimbo (02:05 PM) dbphoenix: Better make it M&Ms. Too many wins and he'd be bouncing off the walls. Paltalk: Love PalTalk but hate the banners and popups? Go bannerless! Only $9.95 per year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (02:05 PM) dbphoenix: BTW, boy or girl? (02:06 PM) dave_b_quik: boy (02:06 PM) dbphoenix: Ah, aggressive :0) (02:06 PM) skyprince_1: Careful db...:) (02:06 PM) dbphoenix: :0) (02:07 PM) dbphoenix: Can I assume you're old enough to remember Sky King? (02:07 PM) dave_b_quik: oh, yes (02:07 PM) dave_b_quik: he flew a Cessna 310, right? (02:08 PM) dbphoenix: I meant skyprince. I assumed you were old enough. Don't remember the plane. I remember his daughter's name, tho. (02:08 PM) jimbo_320: 425 contracts bid at 96 (02:08 PM) donsuelo: And his lovely niece Penny (02:08 PM) skyprince_1: Songbird (02:08 PM) dave_b_quik: i remember Sky King, but not skypince? (02:08 PM) dbphoenix: You must be using a lot of margin, jimbo. (02:09 PM) skyprince_1: Yeah a 310 (02:09 PM) skyprince_1: Pony tail Penny? (02:09 PM) jimbo_320: that must be dave bidding on retro-es ;-) (02:09 PM) dave_b_quik: i remember the cute dotter and the horse (02:09 PM) dbphoenix: Was it his niece? You're better than I am. Jeez, we're talking nearly 50 years ago. (02:09 PM) Orprepus: it is abbey (02:10 PM) skyprince_1: I saw the reruns...he he... (02:10 PM) donsuelo: My grandmama told meabout it.....NOT (02:10 PM) skyprince_1: Get em all mixed up..Roy Rogers, Sky King, Trigger, etc. (02:11 PM) Orprepus: and rin tin tin (02:11 PM) Orprepus: get em boy (02:11 PM) skyprince_1: When I'm eighty, I'll remember all those details....but forget where I live! (02:11 PM) dbphoenix: Yeah. Trivia games aren't as much fun with all these reruns going on. EVerybody knows Dale Evans' horse's name. (02:12 PM) Orprepus: Ummm Thank You Mask Man (02:12 PM) dave_b_quik: hi ho silver (02:12 PM) Orprepus: got any more silver bullets (02:12 PM) dave_b_quik: no that's the lone ranger (02:13 PM) skyprince_1: Anyone else take the sell at 81? (02:13 PM) dave_b_quik: short 82 here (02:13 PM) skyprince_1: slippage (02:16 PM) dbphoenix: I took it higher, sky. (02:17 PM) fredrickson: what about Davey Crocket ....he on re-runs anywhere (02:17 PM) dbphoenix: I doubt it. Disney still owns it. (02:18 PM) dave_b_quik: i remember the song, davey, davey crocket, king of the wild frontier... (02:18 PM) dbphoenix: Altho I understand that Disney has some sort of retro thing late night. (02:18 PM) dave_b_quik: i'll have to get my lawyer on 'em (02:18 PM) dbphoenix: something something mountain man from Tennessee, killed him a bar when he was only three. (02:19 PM) dbphoenix: I even had a raccoon hat when I was little. (02:19 PM) dave_b_quik: didn't know you were that old... (02:19 PM) dave_b_quik: me too! (02:19 PM) dbphoenix: I'm ancient. Feeble. (02:19 PM) dbphoenix: But we also got a TV early. And I have a good memory. (02:20 PM) dave_b_quik: some days i can't remember who my broker is (02:20 PM) dbphoenix: Plus we were isolated, so all I had was TV and books. (02:20 PM) donsuelo: MY neice sings "killed in a bar when hewas only three" (02:20 PM) dbphoenix: That works. (02:23 PM) dbphoenix: You should check out kissthisguy.com. (02:23 PM) fredrickson: yea I remember that song and hat well :) (02:23 PM) dbphoenix: Has to do with song lyrics that people don't hear quite right. (02:24 PM) dbphoenix: I can see Shirley now, Lorraine is gone. (02:25 PM) donsuelo: Niece also thinks Michaelangelo painted the sixteenth Chapel (02:27 PM) dbphoenix: And then there's the ever-popular Jose, Can You See . . . . (02:30 PM) Orprepus: jimbo - taking requests (02:32 PM) Orprepus: spoos falling and dow but not the naz (02:33 PM) Orprepus: 16m bos (02:34 PM) jimbo_320: ? (02:34 PM) jam_27: Will it take out LOD Orp/ (02:34 PM) Orprepus: es (02:34 PM) Orprepus: guitar (02:34 PM) jam_27: yes (02:34 PM) jimbo_320: go on then (02:34 PM) Orprepus: traveling music (02:35 PM) Orprepus: maybe help this thing move (02:35 PM) jimbo_320: sellers? (02:35 PM) Orprepus: sure (02:35 PM) jimbo_320: what would u like? Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. (02:37 PM) jimbo_320: pivot held so far (02:37 PM) fforest: I am a new trader here.I was wondering what you guys thought of Carl Lind? (02:38 PM) dave_b_quik: kinda expensive last i checked (02:39 PM) jimbo_320: stage is set ? (02:39 PM) dbphoenix: This 3bar grouping thing is working awfully well for me today. I'm looking forward to playing with this. (02:39 PM) dave_b_quik: showdown at the 20EMA15? (02:39 PM) Orprepus: cat stevens - on the road to find out (02:40 PM) dbphoenix: How 'bout Just call me angel of the morning, baby, just cross my feet before you leave me. (02:42 PM) dbphoenix: The DTL on the NQ sure is nice. (02:42 PM) donsuelo: DB could you give an example of how you used it? Seems like interesting " outside of the box" approach (02:43 PM) dave_b_quik: ya, if i'd only sold the 20EMA on the 30t chart all the way down (02:43 PM) Buffy_04364: nice jimbo (02:43 PM) Buffy_04364: :-) (02:44 PM) ppusa: new day (02:44 PM) BrainStorm: well thats me done time for drinkies...see you tommorow all (02:45 PM) dbphoenix: Well, for example, the breakout from the triangle on the 5m. I didn't want to wait for the "15m" bar to finish forming, largely because I wouldn't know where to place the order until it was done, and by the time I got it in, it would likely be past my limit. (02:45 PM) dbphoenix: So I used the 5m breakout bar, which put me in at 138100. (02:46 PM) dbphoenix: I'd then use the two preceding bars to make a new "15m" bar, and use 3bar groups thereafter until the trend began to lose momentum. (02:47 PM) Orprepus: thank you jimbo (02:47 PM) Orprepus: clapping (02:47 PM) dbphoenix: At the top, I used the low of the bar immediately preceding the swing high bar as the sell stop. (02:47 PM) jam_27: throwing change (02:48 PM) jimbo_320: thanks (02:48 PM) dbphoenix: That plus the swing high bar plus the bar after made the 15m bar for the top. (02:48 PM) jimbo_320: u like moonshadow ? (02:48 PM) donsuelo: Thanks db (02:48 PM) dave_b_quik: moonshine? (02:48 PM) ppusa: what song was that last one? (02:49 PM) dbphoenix: Hope that makes sense. (02:49 PM) dave_b_quik: can't wait 'til you can post yr charts, db (02:49 PM) donsuelo: I'll second that (02:49 PM) dbphoenix: I don't have access to an intraday history, so I'll have to start with today. (02:50 PM) jimbo_320: hope the singing wasnt too bad (02:51 PM) dbphoenix: The 15m bar doesn't present any problems to me as long as there are shadows. But if it's a marubozu or shaved top/bottom, I can't get in properly. Which is what I've been chewing on. (02:51 PM) dave_b_quik: i thot you were playing the album that time, jimbo (02:52 PM) dbphoenix: What appealed to me about your system was the reduction in noise. But the bar kept throwing me. Then it dawned on me that I could much the same thing by using a 15m range rather than a 15m bar, and I could adjust highs and lows in realtime. (02:52 PM) dbphoenix: Theoretically, this would get me in sooner and out later. (02:53 PM) dave_b_quik: db, i use a timer set to blast me 30 seconds before bar end, so my finger can be on the trigger when those shaved top bars end (02:54 PM) ppusa: Today Cycle High??? New Lows Around The Corner!!! (02:55 PM) dbphoenix: Of course, an easy way around that is to set the stop at more than one tick above the top of the bar, but I'm reluctant to do that yet. (02:55 PM) dave_b_quik: i use a software timer that i set in the morning and it goes off every 5 minutes and yells, "ON YR STOPS" 30 seconds before the 5m and 15m bars end (02:56 PM) dave_b_quik: the only thing is i have to change the message often because after hearing it a few hundred times my brain filters it out as background noise (02:57 PM) dbphoenix: So much easier when you have a little bit of a shadow (02:57 PM) dave_b_quik: ya (02:57 PM) dbphoenix: Yeah, I had that problem with alerts when I was doing stocks. (02:57 PM) donsuelo: I use it on 30 min."One less bell to answer" (02:57 PM) skyprince_1: What a wonderful trending day...from noon anyhow... (02:58 PM) dbphoenix: I know. If it were this easy every day . . . . (02:58 PM) dbphoenix: Makes up for Tues and Wed. I felt totally incompetent. (02:59 PM) skyprince_1: db...yes, they were tough days... (03:00 PM) skyprince_1: But retro still produced a little....it rarely loses. (03:00 PM) dbphoenix: Looks like we might revisit the gap low tomorrow. But then what? (03:01 PM) dbphoenix: Tomorrow I'm going to papertrade the PM bar and see what happens. (03:02 PM) skyprince_1: Retro stopped out at 67.5, right? (03:03 PM) ppusa: SP take out low please (03:04 PM) ppusa: dbp which premarket? (03:04 PM) dbphoenix: NQ (03:04 PM) ppusa: 15 minute? (03:04 PM) dbphoenix: Yes. (03:05 PM) dbphoenix: I suspect I'll have to use a 10pt bracket (or straddle or whatever). (03:06 PM) dbphoenix: If it stays flat, I can just cancel the order with no fills. If not, I would hopefully be on the correct side of the move. Paltalk: Press the INVITE button NOW! Get your friends in on the fun! Invite them to join us on PalTalk today! (03:06 PM) ppusa: use common sense. sometimes outside initial 15 minute good for signal, other than that lotta chop (03:07 PM) dbphoenix: True. But I ought to know within a few minutes what to do with the other stop. (03:07 PM) dbphoenix: But I'd rather risk five or ten points than risk missing out on an important move. (03:07 PM) ppusa: tomorrow may be a rough day (03:07 PM) dbphoenix: You don't have that problem. (03:08 PM) fredrickson: donsuelo.."don't ask for whom the bell tolls, for the bell tolls for you" :) (03:11 PM) dbphoenix: Out for 17.5 (03:18 PM) dbphoenix: Just checked my email, and T is calling this a potential exhaustion gap. (03:19 PM) ppusa: guess means reverse down (03:19 PM) dbphoenix: Seems reasonable. (03:20 PM) dbphoenix: If so, it'll be interesting to see where buyers re-emerge. (03:21 PM) ppusa: i think she means continue up (03:21 PM) Tom_B: marathon man needs rest... (03:22 PM) ppusa: gap above a gap= exhaustion gap (03:26 PM) SP Steve: gap gap gap (03:28 PM) SP Steve: Kind of quiet in here (03:29 PM) fredrickson: so sp steve is it bullish or bearish (03:29 PM) SP Steve: yes it is (03:30 PM) SP Steve: depends on what time frame you deal in (03:30 PM) SP Steve: Does everyone in here trade the mini Sp, or nasdaq? (03:30 PM) fredrickson: yes, mostly (03:30 PM) SP Steve: Got me.. touche (03:31 PM) fredrickson: lol naz (03:31 PM) SP Steve: This would be interesting, considering everyone here is a trader.... (03:32 PM) SP Steve: How do you all feel about these services that charge like $500 per month for signals? (03:33 PM) dbphoenix: Contrary to the old saying, you don't always get what you pay for. (03:33 PM) SP Steve: I couldn't agree more (03:34 PM) SP Steve: I think that every service could charge that OUT OF PROFITS in the account (03:34 PM) SP Steve: That seems fair, no? (03:34 PM) SP Steve: Like these services that say you make 8-10 thousand a month ( just never seems to happen though) Paltalk: You DO have a choice! Buy bannerless to end your popup blues today! Click OPTIONS on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Only $9.95 a year! That's less than THREE CENTS per day! WOW!!! (03:36 PM) SP Steve: We have an in-house system written for the nasdaq, but I don't want to lump us in that same group (03:36 PM) donsuelo: You'll get $500 worth of good info in this room in about a day and a half...........teach a man to fish (03:36 PM) SP Steve: really (03:36 PM) SP Steve: great (03:37 PM) dbphoenix: There are still a few people around who do it for free. (03:40 PM) donsuelo: There are a core of very saavy traders in the room who also happen to be very generous......you'll learn who they are quickly..(.I'm just tryin to learn) (03:40 PM) SP Steve: well.. i hope I can contribute (03:41 PM) SP Steve: I have traded for 21 years... Thinking of making a career out of it! (03:41 PM) dbphoenix: If you want generous, though, Teresa tops the list IMO. (03:42 PM) jimbo_320: sold 1/2 es +5 (03:43 PM) skyprince_1: SP...sure you want to jump right in like that? (03:43 PM) ppusa: jimbo what entry did you use? (03:43 PM) SP Steve: Teresa? From MIRC? (03:44 PM) dbphoenix: Teresa Lo (03:44 PM) SP Steve: ah (03:44 PM) dbphoenix: Now this is interesting. I would not have expected so high a bounce. (03:44 PM) SP Steve: me either.... (03:44 PM) dbphoenix: Wonder if 1360 is going to be a support level. (03:45 PM) SP Steve: dDo any of you use retracements as keys? (03:45 PM) skyprince_1: Yeah...may test HOD (03:45 PM) dbphoenix: Theoretically, since we spent so much time there this morning, it should be pretty solid. (03:46 PM) Tom_B: What's the point ? (03:48 PM) ppusa: they are playing gazmes with 60 area, tomorrow drop through there in no time. Maybe put in LOD down there and run to new high (03:49 PM) jimmer49: secret macd system +88 nq today (03:49 PM) jimbo_320: pp 93.75 (03:49 PM) ppusa: ??? (03:49 PM) skyprince_1: jimmer.....secret? (03:50 PM) dbphoenix: You have to come up with a better name. (03:50 PM) jimmer49: work in process to be disclosed when more clear as to rules (03:50 PM) ppusa: jimbo did you enter on signal or just buy low? (03:50 PM) skyprince_1: MACD 3,11,17 on 5min? (03:50 PM) jimmer49: Gonna run it by elly and tinker some more first (03:51 PM) jimmer49: No sky (03:51 PM) ispe_bc: 3,11,5? (03:51 PM) jimmer49: name contest to follow (03:52 PM) dbphoenix: Wasn't there a short signal just after 1500, though? (03:52 PM) jimmer49: 3,11,6 (03:52 PM) ppusa: gap again tomorrow??? (03:52 PM) jimmer49: not black box tho (03:52 PM) Orprepus: eMACD or sMACD (03:52 PM) jimmer49: e (03:53 PM) ispe_bc: I started looking at that after you mentioned before jimmer. Looks good (03:53 PM) Orprepus: would think so (03:53 PM) jimmer49: not just a simple cross system (03:53 PM) SP Steve: Our system is called Super Duper Secret System (03:53 PM) jimmer49: times to say out critical (03:53 PM) jimmer49: stay (03:54 PM) skyprince_1: I'm intrigued.... (03:54 PM) skyprince_1: SDSS, huh? (03:54 PM) SP Steve: yep (03:54 PM) skyprince_1: Sounds German... (03:54 PM) jimmer49: Gad if everyone does it it won't work (03:54 PM) SP Steve: wow, it does! (03:55 PM) skyprince_1: jimmer...I don't buy that....cause no two traders trade the same system the same way.... (03:56 PM) jimmer49: don't worry sky, I won't be reluctant to share if I feel it is good enough (03:56 PM) skyprince_1: I'll bet everyone here trades retro just a little bit different...or a lot different from the next trader. (03:56 PM) skyprince_1: ok...:) (03:57 PM) jimmer49: yesterday was not as good and made me think about some things (03:57 PM) jimbo_320: out the rest +6.5 es ..... (03:58 PM) jimbo_320: we just had to close at the highs today (03:58 PM) skyprince_1: Wow..close at HOD (03:58 PM) jimmer49: The one thing I don't want to do is put out something that requires complicated definitions, endless nuances and caveats (03:58 PM) SP Steve: Sky... just curious.. why wouldn't everyone trade the same system the same way? (03:58 PM) jimbo_320: should of put my offer at 1100 :-( (03:59 PM) skyprince_1: Psychology....second guessing, hunches, etc. (03:59 PM) SP Steve: Then it is not systems trading (03:59 PM) jimmer49: attention lapses (03:59 PM) donsuelo: Secret Holy grail IntelligentTrading System.....Nah..bad acronym (04:00 PM) SP Steve: The whole idea of systems trading is to eliminate ALL emotions (04:00 PM) skyprince_1: Retro long from 82......with add at 87....nice! (04:00 PM) skyprince_1: Whoooppeee! (04:01 PM) ppusa: JIMBO did you enter on signal or just buy pullback? (04:01 PM) jimmer49: The one problem with systems trading is that it elimates the need for the trader to take responsiblity for trades. Not taking responsibility is the very antithesis of good trading. (04:01 PM) SP Steve: who is Retro? (04:01 PM) jimbo_320: 2b (04:01 PM) skyprince_1: SP....go to www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com (04:01 PM) ppusa: tks (04:02 PM) skyprince_1: Out at 98 +25 in last run...love retro! (04:03 PM) ppusa: anyone go long retro at 1372.5? (04:03 PM) jimmer49: macd long at 69 (04:04 PM) Orprepus: anyone have bmi data feed - I need some help (04:04 PM) ppusa: Time Frame? (04:04 PM) Orprepus: pp 5m (04:04 PM) skyprince_1: Yes pp, but then out at 74.5 and back in at 82 with add at 87.5 and rode it to 98....fun! (04:05 PM) Orprepus: no bmi I guess (04:05 PM) jimbo_320: jimmer you got in the same spot but on nqoos instead of spoos (04:05 PM) ppusa: too bad about the out sky Paltalk: To visit our sponsors, click on banners! (04:09 PM) jimbo_320: nq 67 -97 $20 a point = 600$ es 93.75-99.25 $ a point = $300 - i've been done trading the wrong contract (04:11 PM) jimbo_320: anyone holding a contract onite? (04:12 PM) ppusa: i have order to selll 1400 (04:13 PM) ppusa: who's your daddy (04:13 PM) jimbo_320: looks like you're about to get filled (04:13 PM) ppusa: got it (04:14 PM) ppusa: i thought i was being stingy at 1400 (04:14 PM) ppusa: not (04:15 PM) jimbo_320: bit of spike up there pp (04:19 PM) SP Steve: See you all later... seems like a nice group of people here (04:20 PM) ispe_bc: take care Steve (04:20 PM) jimbo_320: 1103.5 to 1400 in 3 weeks (04:27 PM) jimbo_320: posted chart big_bucks on the nqoos (04:27 PM) jimbo_320: if anyone is still here (04:27 PM) elly_34: i am here (04:27 PM) elly_34: JIMMER WHERE ARE U (04:27 PM) elly_34: darn i missed him (04:28 PM) elly_34: anyone use a good futures platform besides IB, that has comprable commissions to IB? Paltalk: Subscribe to Paltalk Plus to stop the popups today! Get it NOW for less than THREE CENTS a day! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (04:42 PM) Buffy_04364: does anyone use win ME with esignal and EW (04:44 PM) Buffy_04364: art is considering doing futures but wondered about it (04:52 PM) Orprepus: anyone use DTN data feed (04:52 PM) elly_34: what is win ME? (04:52 PM) elly_34: Buffy what broker do u use? (04:52 PM) Buffy_04364: an operating system like Win98 (04:52 PM) Buffy_04364: pfgbest (04:52 PM) elly_34: what kind of commissions pls? (04:52 PM) Buffy_04364: 10RT but I have volume :-) (04:53 PM) Buffy_04364: Luke Moretti is my broker (04:53 PM) elly_34: how many contracts do u trade? (04:53 PM) Buffy_04364: 1-5 (04:53 PM) elly_34: nice (04:53 PM) elly_34: i am looking for a broker that can hook two accounts together to be triggered simultaneously (04:53 PM) elly_34: u know like piggy back or something (04:53 PM) Buffy_04364: never heard of it good luck (04:54 PM) elly_34: thanks (04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: u welc (04:58 PM) Orprepus: overnight - nq up 23 (04:59 PM) Orprepus: major accumulation today (05:03 PM) elly_34: jnpr beat Paltalk: Please visit our advertisers by clicking on banners. (05:09 PM) luv-to-trade: Elly, I just happened to come in an read what I've missed. I just started with Future Wise Trading, who charges $5 flat a round turn (05:10 PM) luv-to-trade: I don't know if they can hook together 2 accounts, but they are cheap, and have excellent service so far (05:12 PM) Orprepus: luv - what platform do they use (05:15 PM) luv-to-trade: their own (05:15 PM) luv-to-trade: I have never seen one like it (05:16 PM) luv-to-trade: I also currently have Infinity Borkerage and use their PMBe platform (05:16 PM) Orprepus: who the clear through (05:17 PM) luv-to-trade: CCI (05:17 PM) Orprepus: do you know who they use as a clearing firm for you (05:17 PM) Orprepus: $5 rt is great (05:17 PM) Orprepus: CCI? (05:17 PM) luv-to-trade: Commodity Consultants International, Inc (05:18 PM) luv-to-trade: they are soon getting a new platform that can do a lot more, their current one is real basic and simple (05:18 PM) luv-to-trade: which I like (05:21 PM) Orprepus: market buy limit for Sell and buy (05:22 PM) luv-to-trade: and MIT, MOC, (05:22 PM) luv-to-trade: STOP (05:22 PM) Orprepus: meant to have stop (05:24 PM) elly_34: wow (05:24 PM) elly_34: i just sat back down (05:24 PM) elly_34: have a website luv? (05:24 PM) luv-to-trade: I am looking for the original link to send you so you can look at them (05:24 PM) elly_34: thanks (05:24 PM) elly_34: i just called IB and they do not (05:24 PM) elly_34: but they have such great commissions (05:25 PM) elly_34: but this is the same sounds like (05:25 PM) Orprepus: luv - CCI is not list as CME clearing firm? (05:25 PM) luv-to-trade: this one is real good so far (05:25 PM) Orprepus: http://www.cme.com/about_cme/clearing_firms/aboutcme_cfirms.cfm (05:25 PM) elly_34: is it futurewisetrading? (05:26 PM) elly_34: .com (05:26 PM) Orprepus: usually the clearing firm provides the software (05:26 PM) luv-to-trade: yes www.futurewisetrading.com (05:26 PM) luv-to-trade: or www.fwtg.com (05:26 PM) luv-to-trade: the clearing firm is CCI (05:26 PM) elly_34: using them for how long? (05:27 PM) luv-to-trade: I know what a clearing firm is; that is who I had to send the money to to open the account (05:27 PM) luv-to-trade: only a week now (05:27 PM) luv-to-trade: still have my other account just in case (05:27 PM) Orprepus: the fwtg.com link is to the login - do you know if they have a demo access (05:27 PM) luv-to-trade: $5 flat a round turn, and $1000 margin to daytrade anything! (05:28 PM) luv-to-trade: I am looking for it Pro (05:28 PM) Orprepus: woow (05:28 PM) Orprepus: woooooww (05:28 PM) Orprepus: wooooooowwwwooooww (05:28 PM) luv-to-trade: lol - what? (05:28 PM) elly_34: but the account minimum is more than 1k,,is it normal mini margin? (05:28 PM) Orprepus: $1000 margin per contract/sign me up (05:29 PM) Orprepus: $5k or $10K to open account (05:29 PM) elly_34: no 800 number (05:29 PM) elly_34: that is strange (05:29 PM) luv-to-trade: The place I am with now is $1000 for es, and 1500 for nq (05:29 PM) elly_34: brb (05:30 PM) luv-to-trade: they send 800 number to you after account is open and funded (05:30 PM) Orprepus: it is sounds like a small IB with low over head (05:30 PM) Orprepus: is ther a min to open account (05:30 PM) elly_34: k (05:30 PM) elly_34: ty (05:30 PM) elly_34: calling now (05:34 PM) luv-to-trade: me too (05:35 PM) luv-to-trade: $1000 is the minimum to open an account (05:36 PM) x21r: elly i think luv is ansering the pfhone /lol Paltalk: Your friends are just a click away! Press the invite button NOW! (05:37 PM) luv-to-trade: http://www.impulsiveprofits.com/futurewise/faq.htm (05:37 PM) luv-to-trade: http://www.futurewisetrading.com/ (05:43 PM) elly_34: back (05:45 PM) luv-to-trade: did you find anything helpful out? (05:45 PM) luv-to-trade: I posted a couple sites up there (05:47 PM) hanksterr: luv, looks good, have you seen the newsletter yet (05:48 PM) elly_34: yes but i am confused (05:48 PM) luv-to-trade: Here is the best one I was looking for: (05:48 PM) luv-to-trade: http://www.futurewisetrading.com/$5-commissions/info.htm (05:48 PM) elly_34: so what are those fees? (05:48 PM) elly_34: he told me 5 RT but this site is saying 5 plus exchange fees (05:48 PM) Orprepus: so only $1000 (05:48 PM) elly_34: oh (05:49 PM) luv-to-trade: right now as a promotional thing it is $5 flat (05:49 PM) luv-to-trade: after promotion, will be $5 plus fees (05:49 PM) elly_34: and will be how much? (05:49 PM) hanksterr: $25 monthly fee also (05:49 PM) luv-to-trade: which for nq is .82 cents per contract (05:49 PM) Orprepus: globex is $1 side I think (05:49 PM) elly_34: do u know what those fees are? (05:49 PM) luv-to-trade: no, no monthly fee (05:50 PM) luv-to-trade: nq, which I trade, will be a total of $5.82 a complete round turn, in and out (05:50 PM) luv-to-trade: is that what you trade elly? (05:50 PM) elly_34: so the .82 is RT also? (05:50 PM) elly_34: not yet, still an options and stocks person (05:50 PM) elly_34: but will be (05:50 PM) Orprepus: the say $2.50 a side which includes exchange fees (05:50 PM) hanksterr: There is a $25.00 monthly accounting fee charged to your account There is a $25.00 monthly accounting fee charged to your account (05:51 PM) hanksterr: http://www.futurewisetrading.com/$5-commissions/info-request.htm (05:51 PM) Orprepus: of (05:51 PM) luv-to-trade: If there is that $25 monthly fee, it is worth it to me, about a dollar a day only; not per contract (05:51 PM) hanksterr: sorry about the dupes (05:51 PM) hanksterr: I agree just sharing info (05:52 PM) luv-to-trade: do you have them hanksterr? (05:52 PM) Orprepus: thats fine hanksterr (05:52 PM) hanksterr: no I just followed your info, have you seen the newsletter (05:52 PM) Orprepus: more info the better (05:53 PM) luv-to-trade: what newsletter? on trade recs? (05:55 PM) elly_34: futures are +24 (05:55 PM) elly_34: from the close (05:55 PM) elly_34: nq mean (05:55 PM) Orprepus: amazing (05:55 PM) luv-to-trade: I am not trying to solicit anything. elly asked a question before and I answered (05:56 PM) luv-to-trade: I am just trying them out for the first time myself this week (05:56 PM) luv-to-trade: I just thought that paying only $5 would make it a lot easier to scalp (05:56 PM) hanksterr: paltalk messing up sorry (05:56 PM) luv-to-trade: even one point would mean $15 profit...lol (05:56 PM) Orprepus: CCI is a clearing broker not a member firm (05:57 PM) luv-to-trade: ok (05:57 PM) Orprepus: Heard that there are a lot PAt System IB trying to sign up new accounts with low intro rates for emini (05:58 PM) Orprepus: netfutures had one a while ago for $.99 rt plus fees (05:58 PM) Orprepus: worked out to about $5.30 (05:58 PM) Orprepus: rt (05:58 PM) luv-to-trade: could be. I asked if their new system would be patsystems proptrader but they said no, it is proprietary, and has a lot of features just for daytrading (05:59 PM) luv-to-trade: who do you have Pro? (06:00 PM) Orprepus: Refco's Refco Direct which is Pat Systems - J-trader via my IB (06:00 PM) Orprepus: but pay way too much $15rt which includes all fees (06:00 PM) luv-to-trade: ok (06:01 PM) luv-to-trade: do you like it? (06:01 PM) luv-to-trade: my IB has it too, but it is so complicated (06:01 PM) Orprepus: looking to open Netfutures account shortly - but required $10K min to open account (06:01 PM) Orprepus: anything over $10k gets interest (06:01 PM) Orprepus: it is vey fast (06:01 PM) Orprepus: and real easy to use I think (06:02 PM) Orprepus: reading the manual helped (06:02 PM) luv-to-trade: my broker, Infinity offers proptrader for $10 rt, if you like it so much (06:03 PM) Orprepus: can get it at netfutures also for $5.30rt (06:03 PM) Orprepus: clearing via GNI (06:03 PM) luv-to-trade: ok (06:03 PM) Orprepus: not their normal clearing house (06:03 PM) Orprepus: special for eminis (06:03 PM) luv-to-trade: sounds like there is a lot of good places and competition out there (06:03 PM) hanksterr: another one is elocal http://www.elocaltrading.com/html/main.isx (06:03 PM) hanksterr: see you later (06:04 PM) Orprepus: wow naz comp back over 1700 (06:04 PM) Orprepus: see ya hank (06:05 PM) luv-to-trade: so how did retro do today? (06:05 PM) luv-to-trade: actually I was wondering how Buffy has been doing lately - haven't talked for a long time (06:06 PM) Orprepus: she has been busy with guset in her house (06:06 PM) Orprepus: guests Paltalk: Go bannerless and support PalTalk! Subscribe today! Only $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (06:09 PM) luv-to-trade: ok, no wonder (06:09 PM) luv-to-trade: thank you (06:11 PM) Orprepus: ew coming tonight - bug fix (06:11 PM) Orprepus: welcome (06:11 PM) Orprepus: fyi new ver of (06:15 PM) jam_27: Sory, to come in late, I use FurtureWise , way to slow for the market conditions , just to let you know Orp. (06:16 PM) jam_27: Howard, Are you here? (06:17 PM) Ensign Software: hi all, (06:17 PM) Orprepus: hey howard (06:17 PM) Orprepus: hi again (06:17 PM) jam_27: hi (06:17 PM) Orprepus: jam do you like them (06:18 PM) Roger Schelling: Hi Howard (06:18 PM) Ensign Software: I have confidence I found and fixed the cause of the perpetual repaints experienced by orprepus. Fix is in Oct 11th version which is being uploaded shortly. (06:18 PM) jam_27: to slow to fill an order for the market as it is today (06:18 PM) Ensign Software: was related to having a symbol overlaid on a chart of the same symbol, and the overlay being in a study sub-window, and as such, failing to resize the range of the overlay scale. (06:19 PM) jam_27: but 5.00 is the price plus 25.00 per month (06:19 PM) Orprepus: thanks jam (06:20 PM) Orprepus: think will stick with plan to open new acct with netfutres (06:21 PM) Orprepus: Howard thanks again for the great support (06:21 PM) Orprepus: this was a tough one (06:22 PM) Ensign Software: welcome. thanks for your patience, your help, and your workspace (06:22 PM) Ensign Software: indeed it was a tough one to narrow down where to look for the problem (06:22 PM) Ensign Software: the brainstorming of a few hours ago were very helpful and right on target (06:23 PM) Orprepus: really gald you could help me (06:23 PM) jam_27: Howard, it may be to much , but it would be nice if you could work something out with a broker, and place something on the chart window to trade by, does that make sense. (06:24 PM) Ensign Software: well you endured it for a few days. at least you were not expected to endure for 6 months (06:24 PM) Ensign Software: esignal version is now available (06:24 PM) Ensign Software: dtn version being uploaded (06:24 PM) Orprepus: great thanks (06:25 PM) Ensign Software: jam we do have some connectivity with the PreferredTrade folks, but they are for stocks, not NQ or ES (06:25 PM) jam_27: just a thought for the future (06:26 PM) Ensign Software: I watch JNPR and it closed at 16.64 in day session and now trading at 21.74 in aftermarket. Wish I owned lots of it. (06:27 PM) Orprepus: this rally has been unbelieveable - nq up 24 overnight (06:27 PM) jam_27: i only have 1 monitor, by the the time I close the window to make a trade, everthing has changed (06:28 PM) Ensign Software: rally is good, but I am still nervous about being at war, terrorist threats, bad economic reports, etc. i expect there will be volatility from it all (06:29 PM) Orprepus: jam that is tough (06:29 PM) Ensign Software: jam, you do not need to close anything, just have order execution form open but behind. use Start task bar to bring the form onto the top in a front/back arrangement (06:29 PM) Ensign Software: dtn version is now available. (06:29 PM) Ensign Software: uploading bmi version now (06:30 PM) jam_27: been trading for 2 weeks and only lost 100.00 , I feel lucky LOL (06:30 PM) Ensign Software: orp, you saw my message esignal version is ready to download? (06:30 PM) Ensign Software: you haven't paid your tuition fee yet. you haven't gotten a good education yet. (06:32 PM) Orprepus: yes (06:32 PM) Orprepus: got back up and installed (06:32 PM) jam_27: I miss spoke , don't have to close , just can't see while I'm trading, seems likeby the time I make a trade and come back to the chart , it has changed (06:32 PM) Orprepus: will trade tomorrow hopefully (06:33 PM) Ensign Software: ok, bye all., bmi version available now too. (06:33 PM) Orprepus: thank you again Howard (06:33 PM) jam_27: thanks (06:33 PM) Orprepus: your the best (06:34 PM) jam_27: Orp. won't it be nice to trade right off the chart? (06:34 PM) Orprepus: I kinda of do (06:35 PM) jam_27: How? (06:35 PM) Orprepus: just click on price in pats system and than click ok and it goes (06:36 PM) jam_27: Which broker? (06:36 PM) Orprepus: whole proces less than 5 seconds fro market order (06:36 PM) Orprepus: setting limits or stops it takes a few extra seconds (06:36 PM) Orprepus: click on price and scroll in price for limit or stop Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. (06:39 PM) Orprepus: any broker that offers pats system - netfutures is ok (06:39 PM) yase_3: Orprepus which Brocker ? (06:39 PM) Orprepus: I am currently with VIP as an IB using Refco Direct (06:40 PM) Orprepus: via Refco Clearing Member of CME (06:40 PM) jam_27: Thanks (06:40 PM) yase_3: tks (06:41 PM) jam_27: Way to dumb to be trading (06:42 PM) jam_27: I get good signals for scalping , but fills or to slow to work. (06:49 PM) wh1: hey (06:50 PM) wh1: irs it sleeping room?? (06:52 PM) Orprepus: still around phone Paltalk: Are banners a bummer and popups a pain? Cure your banner blues NOW for $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then select Bannerless PalTalk to subscribe now! No banners! No Popups! Fast video in all groups! (07:16 PM) wotten: he; (07:16 PM) wotten: hello (07:17 PM) wotten: i'm looking for a emini NQ trading partner (07:17 PM) wotten: anyone interested? (07:17 PM) ppusa: what do you want the partner to do? (07:18 PM) wotten: support, exchange ideas, converse about the market, etc... (07:19 PM) ppusa: u have been in this room before haven't you (07:19 PM) wotten: just briefly...maybe 1 hour or so (07:20 PM) ppusa: we exchange ideas all during trading (07:20 PM) ppusa: you looking formore? (07:21 PM) wotten: a room is good but sometimes the noise of everyone talk about different things can be confusing.... (07:22 PM) wotten: sometimes it is good to talk someone outside the main room while monitoring the main room (07:24 PM) ppusa: suggest show up tomorrow, maybe a little private chat, but can learn much from all (07:24 PM) ppusa: sometimes can sway chat to your interest (07:25 PM) wotten: ok ty (07:25 PM) wotten: yes I want to learn (07:26 PM) wotten: how is this room setup?who monitors the room? (07:26 PM) ppusa: the guys with the @ infront of their name (07:27 PM) ppusa: we just type to save the transcript (07:27 PM) ppusa: show up tomorrow, gotta go (07:27 PM) wotten: is this a pay room? (07:27 PM) wotten: ok ty (07:27 PM) ppusa: no (07:28 PM) ppusa: free (07:28 PM) wotten: thanks for your time Paltalk: Multivideo has been activated in all Paltalk groups!!! With Paltalk 4.0 (available from our beta link on our homepage), you can see up to three people in every group. Paltalk Plus subscribers can see people in full motion video. Paltalk: Click banners to visit our sponsors. (08:20 PM) 1der: Buffy Are you around? Paltalk: Love PalTalk but hate the banners and popups? Go bannerless! Only $9.95 per year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. Paltalk: Press the INVITE button NOW! Get your friends in on the fun! Invite them to join us on PalTalk today! Paltalk: You DO have a choice! Buy bannerless to end your popup blues today! Click OPTIONS on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Only $9.95 a year! That's less than THREE CENTS per day! WOW!!! Paltalk: To visit our sponsors, click on banners! Paltalk: Subscribe to Paltalk Plus to stop the popups today! Get it NOW for less than THREE CENTS a day! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Paltalk: Please visit our advertisers by clicking on banners. (11:49 PM) luv-to-trade: hello (11:49 PM) Buffy_04364: hello (11:49 PM) bio_15: hey (11:50 PM) Buffy_04364: hi (11:50 PM) Buffy_04364: surprise (11:50 PM) Buffy_04364: LOL (11:50 PM) bio_15: who's you folks broker (11:50 PM) bio_15: hi buffy (11:50 PM) Buffy_04364: pfgbest.com (11:50 PM) luv-to-trade: long time no see Buffy! (11:50 PM) bio_15: leo better (11:50 PM) luv-to-trade: how are you doing/ (11:50 PM) bio_15: what mr best? lol (11:50 PM) bio_15: perigrine (11:51 PM) luv-to-trade: I have Infinity Brokerage and am looking at Futurewise now (11:51 PM) bio_15: broke usus them (11:51 PM) Buffy_04364: yep been a while - my brother is still here but things seem to be going well in the room without me (11:51 PM) bio_15: i use steggy @ infinity (11:52 PM) bio_15: couple years now (11:52 PM) luv-to-trade: me too (11:52 PM) luv-to-trade: so you haven't been trading at all lately> (11:52 PM) bio_15: huh? (11:52 PM) Buffy_04364: nope haven't been (11:53 PM) Buffy_04364: haven't seen him in 4 years and who knows how long before the next visit (11:53 PM) luv-to-trade: wow! are you going thru withdrawals? (11:53 PM) Buffy_04364: market always there (11:53 PM) Buffy_04364: LOL yeah a little bit (11:53 PM) luv-to-trade: how long is he visiting for? (11:53 PM) Buffy_04364: getting use to it (11:53 PM) bio_15: hmmmmmmmm (11:53 PM) luv-to-trade: how far away does he live from you? (11:53 PM) Buffy_04364: his plane leaves Boston Saturday (11:53 PM) Buffy_04364: I am in Maine and he is in Colorado (11:53 PM) luv-to-trade: :(( (11:53 PM) luv-to-trade: my oldest son is in Colorado (11:53 PM) Buffy_04364: yes luv :-( (11:54 PM) Buffy_04364: He is in Fort Morgan (11:54 PM) luv-to-trade: he is in Fort Collins (11:54 PM) luv-to-trade: you sound like you are really close to him :) (11:54 PM) Buffy_04364: yes I am (11:55 PM) Buffy_04364: have missed him a lot since he left (11:55 PM) luv-to-trade: that's nice. did he come alone? (11:55 PM) Buffy_04364: yes he did (11:55 PM) Buffy_04364: staying here too (11:55 PM) Buffy_04364: so well you know up late talking etc. He likes the trading set up and may be trying it beginning of next year (11:56 PM) luv-to-trade: It is important to have some contact with family during these unsure times (11:56 PM) Buffy_04364: he is the one who introduced me to stock trading (11:56 PM) luv-to-trade: oh, what does he think of your futures index trading (11:56 PM) Buffy_04364: His ticket would of been much cheaper (11:56 PM) Buffy_04364: he is really quite fascinated with it (11:56 PM) Buffy_04364: totally understands why I don't do stocks now (11:57 PM) Buffy_04364: He always wondered if I really needed five monitors and now agrees I do LOL (11:57 PM) luv-to-trade: lol (11:58 PM) luv-to-trade: that's cool that you and him have that in common (11:58 PM) Buffy_04364: yes and he also is the one who introduced me to duplicate bridge (11:58 PM) Buffy_04364: :-) (11:58 PM) Buffy_04364: he isn't a life master yet though (11:59 PM) luv-to-trade: lol (11:59 PM) luv-to-trade: well, I guess no trading questions for you now (11:59 PM) Buffy_04364: anyone know if the stimulus package is what the market is expecting? (11:59 PM) Buffy_04364: no go ahead he is in the shower (12:00 AM) luv-to-trade: I think so; it is the only thing I can think of for this rally (12:00 AM) Buffy_04364: also the feds issueing the warning of terrorist attacks in the next few days not good (12:00 AM) Buffy_04364: then we have the little guy who reads the headlines that we are back to where we weere before the 11th and figures he is going to miss the boat and wants to buy (12:00 AM) Buffy_04364: then we have the profit takers because it is the weekend (12:01 AM) Buffy_04364: on top of that Greenie speaking sometime maybe already has (12:01 AM) luv-to-trade: it is very interesting (and volatile) if nothing else (12:01 AM) Buffy_04364: and the report tomorrow is important (12:01 AM) Buffy_04364: yes shoudl not be a chop day tomorrow (12:01 AM) Buffy_04364: for sure (12:02 AM) luv-to-trade: think more up? or time for a pullback? (12:02 AM) Buffy_04364: the swings should be there (12:02 AM) Buffy_04364: I think it will swing as each one does his thing with the market (12:02 AM) Buffy_04364: no clue who will win for the day (12:02 AM) Buffy_04364: PA will say (12:03 AM) luv-to-trade: I don't really care, just as long as I guess right (12:03 AM) luv-to-trade: hopefully (12:03 AM) Buffy_04364: guess????? (12:03 AM) Buffy_04364: how are you doing trading? (12:03 AM) Buffy_04364: ok I hope (12:03 AM) luv-to-trade: EDUCATED guess (12:03 AM) luv-to-trade: lololol (12:03 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL pl (12:03 AM) luv-to-trade: yes, good, (12:03 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL (12:04 AM) Buffy_04364: great (12:04 AM) Buffy_04364: I got off a couple of trades this morning before he woke up (12:04 AM) luv-to-trade: I really want to scalp more, like you do, but I keep hearing all those first lessons about getting bigger moves (12:04 AM) luv-to-trade: you did? (12:04 AM) Buffy_04364: yes (12:04 AM) luv-to-trade: what did you do? (12:05 AM) Buffy_04364: the long (12:05 AM) Buffy_04364: I am sure retro only had one trade (12:05 AM) luv-to-trade: good for you! (12:05 AM) luv-to-trade: I bet it felt good (12:05 AM) Buffy_04364: but you know me I don't like to take chances so had more (12:05 AM) Buffy_04364: yes it did (12:06 AM) Buffy_04364: luv if the moving averages are flat scalp (12:06 AM) Buffy_04364: if they are rising or falling go for the trend type trade (12:06 AM) Buffy_04364: especially if all line up (12:06 AM) Buffy_04364: do you watch candles (12:06 AM) luv-to-trade: yeah, but if they are flat, there is no clear direction of which way to scalp (12:06 AM) luv-to-trade: yes, lately watching candles (12:07 AM) Buffy_04364: watch the candlesticks (12:07 AM) Buffy_04364: they tell you (12:07 AM) Buffy_04364: draw those TL (12:07 AM) Buffy_04364: as fast as you have two bars sticking up by themselves (12:07 AM) luv-to-trade: I know once you were talking about trying to put down your methodology - did you ever get to do any of that? (12:08 AM) luv-to-trade: you mean 2 candles? (12:08 AM) Buffy_04364: basically it is the 9/20EMA (12:08 AM) Buffy_04364: 9 above the 20 take buys only (12:08 AM) Buffy_04364: 9 below the 20 only take sells (12:08 AM) luv-to-trade: what time frame? (12:08 AM) Buffy_04364: will miss some of the move but less risk on the trades (12:08 AM) Buffy_04364: do you have tick charts (12:08 AM) Buffy_04364: ? (12:09 AM) tradeit: hello night traders (12:09 AM) Buffy_04364: hi (12:09 AM) luv-to-trade: what time frame do you look for 2 bars sticking up by themselves and use the 9/20 EMA? (12:09 AM) Buffy_04364: just yaking (12:09 AM) tradeit: anyone in futures? (12:09 AM) luv-to-trade: no, remember? q-charts doesn't have tick charts :( (12:10 AM) Buffy_04364: I usually make the lowest one equal to 1 minute a bar if tick (12:10 AM) Buffy_04364: so 1/3/5/9/15 (12:10 AM) tradeit: they do i did have them (12:10 AM) Buffy_04364: M so watch them (12:10 AM) Buffy_04364: higher ones let you watch the main trend (12:11 AM) Buffy_04364: I usually trade the 3 m but always know what is going on in the 1M and higher (12:11 AM) luv-to-trade: wow, you keep up all those charts (1/3/5/9/15) just to scalp? (12:11 AM) Buffy_04364: ifyou don't you don't always know when to switch from scalp mode to trend mode (12:12 AM) Buffy_04364: you just want to scalp all day use the 1/3/5 (12:12 AM) luv-to-trade: you mean you usually trade the 1 m, but always know what is going on in the 3 m and higher? Paltalk: Your friends are just a click away! Press the invite button NOW! (12:12 AM) Buffy_04364: I actually trade the 75/150 and 300T today (12:13 AM) Buffy_04364: but if only had minute charts would imagine using the 1/3/5 trading on the 3M (12:13 AM) luv-to-trade: 3M? (12:13 AM) Buffy_04364: stops on the 1M (12:13 AM) luv-to-trade: ok (12:13 AM) Buffy_04364: you can get chopped to death trading the one minute (12:13 AM) Buffy_04364: taking signals on the 3 minute and stops on teh 1 should avoid that (12:14 AM) luv-to-trade: or stops to cover? (12:14 AM) Buffy_04364: all the patterns are there (12:14 AM) Buffy_04364: although I may get in with stops I usually just hit market for out when candle patterns say to (12:14 AM) Buffy_04364: www.litwick.com (12:14 AM) luv-to-trade: stop losses? (12:14 AM) Buffy_04364: look in glossery (12:14 AM) Buffy_04364: stops to enter (12:15 AM) Buffy_04364: market out if scalping (12:15 AM) tradeit: u r right about that buffy (12:15 AM) luv-to-trade: sorry to quiz you to death, you are just so good at it and so fast too! (12:15 AM) Buffy_04364: np just hard to do with my head not organized on it (12:15 AM) Buffy_04364: we went out to eat and visiting for six hours tonight (12:16 AM) Buffy_04364: much harder than sitting here yakking in the room (12:16 AM) Buffy_04364: tired (12:16 AM) Buffy_04364: all scalping is love is looking for the entry (12:16 AM) luv-to-trade: yes, and being fast! (12:16 AM) Buffy_04364: hit market when it even begins to hint at a problem (12:16 AM) Buffy_04364: usually 3 bars in one direction (12:16 AM) Buffy_04364: for scalp (12:17 AM) bio_15: 20 sec for couple pts is ok (12:17 AM) Buffy_04364: right (12:17 AM) bio_15: don't get greedy (12:17 AM) Buffy_04364: take it when there cause a scalp can turn very very fast (12:17 AM) bio_15: yep (12:18 AM) Buffy_04364: candles talk :-) (12:18 AM) Buffy_04364: close below the open is a clue card to run too (12:18 AM) luv-to-trade: I know. I have learned the hard way (12:18 AM) Buffy_04364: if in uptrend (12:18 AM) Buffy_04364: above in downtrend (12:18 AM) bio_15: 64 or 32 ticks is fast (12:18 AM) luv-to-trade: nq is dropping a bit now (12:18 AM) bio_15: me too (12:18 AM) Buffy_04364: well guys art is out of the shower - see you around and will be back in force next week (12:18 AM) bio_15: i lost 16k on sp before i knew what i was doing (12:18 AM) luv-to-trade: and where the tails are on the candles tells a story too (12:19 AM) Buffy_04364: you can never regret what you leave on teh table as long as there is some in your pocket (12:19 AM) Buffy_04364: also the NR candles luv (12:19 AM) luv-to-trade: I hate to admit it bio, but I think over the years I have lost more than that :( (12:19 AM) luv-to-trade: NR? (12:19 AM) Buffy_04364: many lose a lot more bio (12:19 AM) Buffy_04364: so take care nice chatting (12:19 AM) Buffy_04364: narrow range (12:19 AM) bio_15: cu buffy (12:19 AM) Buffy_04364: watch them - they are clues (12:20 AM) Buffy_04364: night (12:20 AM) luv-to-trade: when it's a narrow range I stay out (12:20 AM) luv-to-trade: bye buffy, it was nice talking to you again (12:20 AM) Buffy_04364: it is clue to get in luv (12:20 AM) Buffy_04364: yes nice here to - great to touch base (12:20 AM) bio_15: trading range is best time for the bands (12:20 AM) luv-to-trade: have a good last few days with your brother, and thanks for all the tips :)) (12:21 AM) Buffy_04364: maybe we can talk about how to use them over the weekend luv (12:21 AM) luv-to-trade: that would be great! (12:21 AM) luv-to-trade: I would appreciate it so much (12:21 AM) Buffy_04364: my guess he is going to want to be closer to Boston tomorrow night then here as plane leaving early so might be in room tomorrow night (12:21 AM) Buffy_04364: np (12:21 AM) Buffy_04364: hope many want to talk trading this weekend to get my head back on it (12:22 AM) luv-to-trade: try not to be too sad at his leaving :( (12:22 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL (12:22 AM) bio_15: take one out of four & pay the broker .25 (12:22 AM) Buffy_04364: ? bio (12:22 AM) Buffy_04364: I manage the trade agressively until I am BE including the broker (12:22 AM) Buffy_04364: then I might relax a bit - trend trade only (12:22 AM) Buffy_04364: night (12:23 AM) Buffy_04364: he waiting for me (12:23 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL (12:23 AM) luv-to-trade: ok, enjoy the company :) (12:24 AM) tradeit: bye buffy,let see if nq will hold 1407 till 3am (12:25 AM) luv-to-trade: tradeit , did you say above that q-charts has ticks you can use? (12:27 AM) bio_15: nite all (12:28 AM) luv-to-trade: gnite bio Paltalk: Go bannerless and support PalTalk! Subscribe today! Only $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (01:01 AM) luv-to-trade: see you all later (01:01 AM) luv-to-trade: good night (01:01 AM) luv-to-trade: nice talkin to ya Dave (01:01 AM) luv-to-trade: lol Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. Paltalk: Are banners a bummer and popups a pain? Cure your banner blues NOW for $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then select Bannerless PalTalk to subscribe now! No banners! No Popups! Fast video in all groups! (02:09 AM) tradeit: any one in globex right now? Paltalk: Multivideo has been activated in all Paltalk groups!!! With Paltalk 4.0 (available from our beta link on our homepage), you can see up to three people in every group. Paltalk Plus subscribers can see people in full motion video. Paltalk: Click banners to visit our sponsors. Paltalk: Love PalTalk but hate the banners and popups? Go bannerless! Only $9.95 per year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. Paltalk: Press the INVITE button NOW! Get your friends in on the fun! Invite them to join us on PalTalk today! (04:34 AM) tradeit: wonder how much retracement (if any)we get after night session.lol nq broke 1392 at 4:30 am (04:34 AM) tradeit: good morning no microphone yet,sorry (04:35 AM) tradeit: r u here gx? (04:36 AM) tradeit: sorry i think i lost you (04:39 AM) tradeit: that 92 might be ourtodays res. and strong one i think and hope i'm wrong Paltalk: You DO have a choice! Buy bannerless to end your popup blues today! Click OPTIONS on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Only $9.95 a year! That's less than THREE CENTS per day! WOW!!! Paltalk: To visit our sponsors, click on banners! Paltalk: Subscribe to Paltalk Plus to stop the popups today! Get it NOW for less than THREE CENTS a day! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Paltalk: Please visit our advertisers by clicking on banners. Paltalk: Your friends are just a click away! Press the invite button NOW! Paltalk: Go bannerless and support PalTalk! Subscribe today! Only $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. Paltalk: Are banners a bummer and popups a pain? Cure your banner blues NOW for $9.95 a year! Click HELP on your Pal List then select Bannerless PalTalk to subscribe now! No banners! No Popups! Fast video in all groups! Paltalk: Multivideo has been activated in all Paltalk groups!!! With Paltalk 4.0 (available from our beta link on our homepage), you can see up to three people in every group. Paltalk Plus subscribers can see people in full motion video. (08:57 AM) rivanews: time to sell (09:08 AM) Tom_B: gm all (09:10 AM) x21r: good morning all (09:12 AM) elly_34: good morning (09:13 AM) eemb: morning