Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
x21r: good morning
eemb: good morning x21
elly_34: is ensign dead for anyone else?
elly_34: good morning
elly_34: btw
Roger Schelling: Ensign is working here
elly_34: roger can u tell me where nq is now pls?
TraderA1A: data server down
Roger Schelling: 1255
elly_34: k ty
elly_34: data server is down for esignal trader!?
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Roger Schelling: Posted NQ 9 min, with premarket
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dave_b_quik: my eSignal is working here
elly_34: hmm
elly_34: dang
TraderA1A: i heard something about damage to some T1 lines
elly_34: well i restarted mine and it is definitely dead
(09:26 AM) Orprepus: morning all
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(09:27 AM) laniermasters: Monring.
(09:27 AM) elly_34: morning orp
(09:27 AM) laniermasters: Roger I was looking at your chart to see if I had a bad tick in NQ and I wonder if you would tell me what your indicators are.
(09:27 AM) laniermasters: I see vol and adx, but I know the others.
(09:28 AM) laniermasters: I don't know what the others are
(09:29 AM) jimbo_320: gm all
(09:33 AM) jimbo_320: anybody here?
(09:33 AM) dave_b_quik: gm, jimbo
(09:33 AM) laniermasters: hi
(09:35 AM) ann_87: gm everyone
(09:35 AM) skyprince_1: (yawn) yep
(09:35 AM) Orprepus: hey jimbo
(09:35 AM) skyprince_1: gm
(09:35 AM) Roger Schelling: REI=Range expansion index,(Espl Script) IF= basically is a MACD,  more about those, much about those learned from the Mike Bruns classes
(09:36 AM) Roger Schelling: I have some material on REI also can email it to you. Maybe you could send a request to rschelling@marshill.com-then I could forward it to you
(09:36 AM) laniermasters: Thanks, Roger, it's interesting to see what other folks look at.
(09:36 AM) Roger Schelling: yea
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(09:37 AM) laniermasters: will send e-mail - appreciate it.
(09:37 AM) jimbo_320: ib has more upgrades than i have winning trades :-)
(09:38 AM) dbphoenix: "Successful" retest of support on NQ already turning to chop.
(09:40 AM) BrainStorm: Morning
(09:41 AM) elly_34: ensign is giving me two quotes
(09:41 AM) elly_34: lol
(09:41 AM) elly_34: indu and one stock
(09:41 AM) Orprepus: chop as it drops
(09:43 AM) Roger Schelling: lanier they are on the way, about 700k in PDF format though, hope that's not to cumbersome
(09:43 AM) jimbo_320: big trin move
(09:44 AM) ppusa: 1242.5 matches lowest pullback
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(09:47 AM) ppusa: HOD needs a test from somewhere
(09:48 AM) ppusa: thinking here
(09:52 AM) ppusa: looking for 75 point PnF reversal if happens before retest HOD, 1225
(09:53 AM) Roger Schelling: oops, i just realized, i forwarded the things to ann, lol, NP anyone, welocome to them :)       duh me, guess i'll wake up now 
(09:55 AM) BrainStorm: retro stopped out of first trade ?
(09:55 AM) skyprince_1: Was for me...at 46
(09:56 AM) jimbo_320: does every get ib downloads every day?
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(09:57 AM) jimbo_320: it is pissing me off
(09:57 AM) jimbo_320: does every body 
(09:57 AM) dbphoenix: What do you mean by ib downloads?
(09:59 AM) dave_b_quik: jimbo, you mean a new TW version upgrade every day?
(09:59 AM) jimbo_320: every day i log on and it spends 15mins downloading
(09:59 AM) dave_b_quik: downloading what?
(09:59 AM) elly_34: never happened to me
(09:59 AM) jimbo_320: i am locked out of my account now
(09:59 AM) jimmer49: not here either
(09:59 AM) jimbo_320: what ver have u got?
(10:00 AM) elly_34: ensign did a really weird thing, looking for howard
(10:00 AM) elly_34: is there any other online tech help for ensign?
(10:00 AM) dave_b_quik: build 722d, 10/2/01
(10:00 AM) Roger Schelling: IB added some analytics, charting etc
(10:00 AM) dbphoenix: Tentative trend reversals in the NQ and ES.
(10:00 AM) laniermasters: Jimbo, is IB Interactive Brokers?
(10:01 AM) jimbo_320: y
(10:01 AM) Roger Schelling: Maybe other things too
(10:01 AM) jimbo_320: i have had about three upgrades the last week
(10:02 AM) jimmer49: I had upgrade to 722e this week, but took about 15 secs
(10:02 AM) dave_b_quik: mine only checks for newer version when I reboot the computer (never)
(10:02 AM) jimbo_320: i have 56k line
(10:02 AM) laniermasters: I'm trying to decide on online broker, now use a real person who is too expensive. (But I like him.) But I think it's necessary to have an online account to trade Retro.
(10:03 AM) dave_b_quik: cheap commissions and fast order entry definitely help
(10:03 AM) laniermasters: Yes, I'm paying $33.42 now - too much!
(10:04 AM) dave_b_quik: wow! 
(10:04 AM) jimmer49: way too much
(10:04 AM) larrybf: broker only good in an emergency. 2x a yaer maybe
(10:04 AM) Orprepus: like your friends not your broke - it is business
(10:04 AM) jimbo_320: i miss a 10 point clunk
(10:05 AM) Orprepus: ask him for lower - see what he says
(10:05 AM) laniermasters: Yes, thanks.  It sounds like Best might be better for a smaller account?
(10:05 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, point out to him that $10 is expensive nowadays for online trading
(10:05 AM) laniermasters: I'll also do that Orp, thx, but I'm sure it won't compare with IB or Best.
(10:06 AM) laniermasters: I'll report later.
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(10:09 AM) dbphoenix: Everything I see says "short".  Anyone see anything to the contrary?
(10:09 AM) BrainStorm: 123 on the 1 min
(10:09 AM) Orprepus: out 9pts es
(10:09 AM) ppusa: i see wierd here dbp
(10:10 AM) laniermasters: Roger, I guess you resent the file to me at lanier@wrinkletech.com?  not here yet.  thanks again.
(10:10 AM) jimbo_320: i have complained to IB, stupid system
(10:10 AM) BrainStorm: still agree db 
(10:10 AM) dbphoenix: Possible second entry on the 3 and 5, NQ
(10:11 AM) ppusa: trying to figure out how to take out the intraday high and still hit 1225
(10:11 AM) dbphoenix: <g>
(10:12 AM) ppusa: i had bot at 38 and excited here
(10:12 AM) ppusa: exited
(10:12 AM) Roger Schelling: Ok now on the way lanier
(10:12 AM) jimbo_320: when i finally get it it will be lunch time
(10:12 AM) dbphoenix: pp, do you start your intraday clock at 0930?
(10:12 AM) jimbo_320: and chop
(10:12 AM) ppusa: y
(10:12 AM) ppusa: see, osold here
(10:13 AM) ppusa: but can't figure out overall picture
(10:13 AM) ppusa: 1229 possibly lod
(10:13 AM) ppusa: what is bothering me is hour chart on intraday nq...
(10:14 AM) dbphoenix: If 1-2-3 is valid, would expect sellers at test of 1250.
(10:14 AM) jimbo_320: is retro stopped at 44?
(10:14 AM) dbphoenix: 1070 ES.
(10:14 AM) ppusa: only thing i can think of right now is throw out the hour chart and sell off
(10:14 AM) ppusa: throw out the retest of high too
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(10:15 AM) ppusa: don't like to do that
(10:15 AM) ppusa: besides osold
(10:16 AM) jimbo_320: or where is his stop now?
(10:16 AM) ppusa: maybe bigger rally than i think
(10:16 AM) dbphoenix: Dow failed its test of resistance.
(10:16 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, jimbo
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(10:17 AM) ppusa: last pop to 45 took out a lot of osold though
(10:17 AM) ppusa: rambling here, clueless, will watch 
(10:18 AM) dbphoenix: Graille sell on 3m NQ, but no thump yet.
(10:18 AM) jimbo_320: so the swing high was defined as a tick over the big red candle not the previous green candle?
(10:18 AM) dbphoenix: Traders seem to be waiting for something, but don't know what.
(10:19 AM) ppusa: bad news here
(10:19 AM) ppusa: another anthrax case
(10:19 AM) dave_b_quik: where?
(10:19 AM) david h_2: fla
(10:19 AM) ppusa: florida
(10:20 AM) ppusa: wonder if that's this down
(10:20 AM) dbphoenix: Anything helps.
(10:20 AM) ppusa: 1225 reverses, maybe LOD?
(10:21 AM) ppusa: maybe nq will h it 1225 and then make new highs next week
(10:21 AM) dave_b_quik: that would make a nice 2B, ppusa
(10:21 AM) dbphoenix: I don't see any support anywhere exc possibly weak support at 1215 (more or less)
(10:21 AM) jimbo_320: vhvb on es 1
(10:22 AM) ppusa: because 1225 would reverse all of the charts that need reversing
(10:22 AM) jimbo_320: 9000 dow
(10:22 AM) ppusa: guess it really depends on whether bull or bear
(10:22 AM) dbphoenix: You're looking at the top of that hook, or the bottom?  Or Fib?
(10:23 AM) Orprepus: classic bear flag fake out
(10:23 AM) BrainStorm: stopped in short at 36 managed to close at  28
(10:23 AM) jimbo_320: shorts watchout
(10:24 AM) BrainStorm: by feeling exactly jimbo
(10:24 AM) BrainStorm: thats why it was a uick scalp
(10:24 AM) dbphoenix: No clunks.  More chop.
(10:24 AM) ppusa: i sold am at 72...didn't hold 'em
(10:24 AM) laniermasters: Roger, got it, many thanks.
(10:25 AM) dbphoenix: Or maybe no.
(10:25 AM) jimbo_320: dow 8980
(10:25 AM) ppusa: 1225
(10:25 AM) ppusa: now what?
(10:26 AM) dbphoenix: Why 1225?
(10:26 AM) ppusa: reversed 75 point PnF
(10:27 AM) ppusa: could have stayed short from yesterdat to here
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(10:27 AM) dbphoenix: Seems like eons ago that I held anything overnight.
(10:30 AM) BrainStorm: too slow puting order in at 22 not sorry now
(10:30 AM) jimbo_320: posted es 30min
(10:31 AM) jimbo_320: did retro get stopped outa last at 33.5?
(10:31 AM) BrainStorm: looks like some real indecisio
(10:32 AM) dbphoenix: Hard to believe that we'd find support at that little congestion area from yesterday.
(10:32 AM) ppusa: last week's high 29.5
(10:32 AM) jimbo_320: 40 todays es target
(10:33 AM) ppusa: today's low setup for next week's rally?
(10:34 AM) Orprepus: posted 4M es PP
(10:34 AM) Orprepus: ADX still on the rise
(10:35 AM) dbphoenix: I should think so, pp.  There's plenty of support here from Sep 24 thru 26.
(10:35 AM) BrainStorm: was that the fake
(10:35 AM) AlRB0RNE: hi all
(10:36 AM) dbphoenix: Maybe.  Let's test it.
(10:37 AM) AlRB0RNE: Does anybody know  some web page like http://finance.lycos.com/home/livecharts/ it does not work :-(
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(10:37 AM) ppusa: maybe server down
(10:37 AM) dbphoenix: Don't know of anything offhand.  They have had their problems the last few days.
(10:38 AM) Orprepus: virus?
(10:38 AM) ppusa: dbp that would explain no retest today
(10:38 AM) dave_b_quik: http://fast.quote.com/fq/justquotes/livechart.html?symbols=es1z&footerType=livechart
(10:38 AM) Orprepus: pp retest might come this afternoon
(10:38 AM) dbphoenix: If you can get by with 1m intervals, try QuoteTracker.  They take their quote.com feed from a different source.
(10:38 AM) AlRB0RNE: thanks dave
(10:39 AM) ppusa: yea or just stay here all day and rally monday
(10:39 AM) x21r: airborne  see www.users.skynet.be/x21  goto livecharts  download newpage1.zip   and put op desk top
(10:40 AM) x21r: works 50 % beter
(10:40 AM) dbphoenix: I wouldn't expect much today.  That would be very uncharacteristic.  But if we can hold here, the ADX will level off and we'll have a nice new support level.
(10:40 AM) Orprepus: don't know about rallying on a monday in oct - maybe tuesday - history has not been kind to monday's in oct
(10:40 AM) dbphoenix: Or maybe I should say confirmed support level.
(10:40 AM) ppusa: daily charts are so osold still
(10:41 AM) dbphoenix: Isn't the first Monday in October when the Supreme Court goes into session?
(10:41 AM) ppusa: decline to steep
(10:41 AM) ann_87: sold off exactly 100 pts from gap 
(10:42 AM) ppusa: according to my quotes, gap on DJ futures 9200, hit 9195 yester
(10:43 AM) dbphoenix: Of couse, this makes 1300 even stronger resistance.
(10:44 AM) Orprepus: unemployment was flatat 4.9  but forecast for oct was 5.3
(10:44 AM) dbphoenix: And Sun provided a reality check.
(10:44 AM) Orprepus: another bear flag or 123 /2b setting up
(10:44 AM) ppusa: from seveal days ago when we were discussing average daily range, 58 points was number...58 point range today.
(10:44 AM) Orprepus: amd also
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(10:46 AM) AlRB0RNE: x21r thanks  its great :-)
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(10:50 AM) x21r: airbone  open file  save as ..newpage3     and jou have 4 grahf   1 of them wil alwys work ..en minimaze the reklame
(10:50 AM) jimbo_320: out 1/2 es +1.5
(10:51 AM) BrainStorm: which direction are you Jimbo ?
(10:51 AM) jimbo_320: long
(10:51 AM) jimbo_320: from 58.25
(10:52 AM) jimbo_320: quick scalp
(10:52 AM) dbphoenix: Don't see the 1-2-3 yet, Orp.  Are you using bodies only or shadows?
(10:53 AM) BrainStorm: volume mauch arkger on the last push down
(10:53 AM) jimbo_320: sorry 58.00
(10:53 AM) jimbo_320: good fill :-)
(10:53 AM) dbphoenix: Speaking in tongues are we BS?
(10:53 AM) Orprepus: bodies
(10:54 AM) Orprepus: trend break
(10:54 AM) dbphoenix: You may have it then, Orp.
(10:54 AM) BrainStorm: no must have moved my keyboard to the left hehe
(10:54 AM) dbphoenix: I don't know, BS.  I hate it when volume gets arkger.
(10:54 AM) BrainStorm: much larger 
(10:54 AM) Orprepus: or fingers move - hate when that happens - paltalk still needs dynanic speel checker
(10:55 AM) dbphoenix: lol
(10:56 AM) BrainStorm: hehe
(10:56 AM) dbphoenix: I've got one chart with the line drawn across the shadows and another with the line drawn across the bodies.  1-2-3 failed at the shadows.
(10:56 AM) dbphoenix: At least so far.
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(10:57 AM) Orprepus: tick falling - test maybe now
(10:58 AM) dbphoenix: I'm tempted to take this, but there's just too much potential support.
(10:58 AM) ppusa: looking for a new low here
(10:59 AM) BrainStorm: if this puts in a higher low we are set (well I am anyway)
(10:59 AM) ppusa: would like to see that high stay on 15 min bar
(10:59 AM) ppusa: also is high for this hour
(11:00 AM) Orprepus: grind grind grind your way - to profits everyday - come on everybody - sing in a round
(11:00 AM) Orprepus: with feeling
(11:01 AM) dave_b_quik: LOL if you can't sing, dance
(11:01 AM) ppusa: take out low of 15 min bar, then rally to higher high 15 min would be 1-2-3
(11:01 AM) Orprepus: sorry  metal lapse - it is only 8am and the dog just woke up
(11:01 AM) ppusa: news?
(11:02 AM) BrainStorm: hello
(11:02 AM) Orprepus: 123 wee
(11:02 AM) jimbo_320: corr
(11:02 AM) dbphoenix: It's been suggested by people with a lot more trading experience than I have that one might as well just take Fridays off.
(11:03 AM) Orprepus: lol
(11:03 AM) Daniel X: gm everyone...wasn't this an easy mornng!1 good es 10.750 trade and the rest of the day off...opps maybe a long here
(11:03 AM) BrainStorm: stopped in long at 30.5 nice
(11:03 AM) BrainStorm: flat now
(11:04 AM) BrainStorm: no reports or anything ?
(11:04 AM) jimbo_320: out the rest es +4.75
(11:04 AM) dbphoenix: Needs to get past 1244 on the 5m for the "3"
(11:04 AM) jimbo_320: 62 was my scalp target
(11:04 AM) jimbo_320: big trin move
(11:05 AM) BrainStorm: jimbo yopu can sit on a run all day long and today you're scalping ....trying to prove your verstility ;-)
(11:05 AM) Orprepus: nice jimbo
(11:05 AM) ppusa: now above last week's high
(11:06 AM) jimbo_320: see how it goes off 62
(11:06 AM) ann_87: trend of trin  going down.....1.35 now
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(11:08 AM) ppusa: yesterday Maria said oversold, today nasdaq guy says obot,,,how can i possibly trade ?
(11:08 AM) jimbo_320: BS missed the 10 pointer thanks to IB this morning so big runner maybe over for the day
(11:09 AM) BrainStorm: good range for scalps
(11:11 AM) BrainStorm: no one got any idea what that pop wass all about ?
(11:12 AM) jimbo_320: if we bounce up of this trendline good for the market
(11:13 AM) ppusa: Treasuries close early today for Columbus Day Holiday Monday
(11:13 AM) BrainStorm: ahh OK
(11:13 AM) BrainStorm: In that case I guess I should take the rest of the day off
(11:13 AM) BrainStorm: was toying with the idea
(11:13 AM) ppusa: are stocks open Monday?
(11:14 AM) dbphoenix: AFAIK.
(11:14 AM) Daniel X:  TAKE THE REST OF THE DAY OFF
(11:14 AM) BrainStorm: If its a holiday I guess it would be heathen to sit her
(11:14 AM) dbphoenix: The briefing calendar doesn't show a holiday.
(11:15 AM) BrainStorm: DAn I been giveing quite a lot back lunch / afternoons
(11:15 AM) Daniel X: it was a big week ..
(11:15 AM) Daniel X: yes think im going back to "done in 90 mins trading
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(11:16 AM) Daniel X: me too   giving back and then recovering but giving back on commisions!!LOL
(11:16 AM) BrainStorm: yesterday caucght the first swing (down) and did adds cause it felt right
(11:16 AM) BrainStorm: got the next up and really should have quit
(11:17 AM) dbphoenix: After this week, I'm going back to an ADX filter until I find something better.  Trying to catch every little twist and turn is not for me.
(11:17 AM) Daniel X: use the ADX filter we've been discusing for confirmation to see if it's worth staying
(11:17 AM) Daniel X: ah there we go..i tyoe slow!!LOL
(11:17 AM) skyprince_1: This is a good time to stand aside and take a walk....
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(11:18 AM) Daniel X: agree DB!!
(11:18 AM) BrainStorm: I am really trying to loose the scalping habbit
(11:18 AM) Daniel X: DB aren't u a graduate of T-Lo's done in 90 mins/
(11:18 AM) Daniel X: ?
(11:18 AM) jimbo_320: 11.20 is often a good move while traders liquidate position before lunch
(11:19 AM) Daniel X: yah thats usually my cut off time Jimbo.
(11:19 AM) Daniel X: 11:30
(11:19 AM) BrainStorm: there are very often two swings early
(11:19 AM) ppusa: PnF looks good for next week up scenario
(11:19 AM) Daniel X: most good moves/trends are in the morning
(11:20 AM) ppusa: 2 swings from high to low
(11:20 AM) BrainStorm: Never liked ADX that much...using it to indicate trendiness ?
(11:20 AM) Daniel X: yah strength of trend
(11:20 AM) jimbo_320: to slow for me
(11:20 AM) BrainStorm: by the time ADX is up seems to me that it is obvious to blind ned that we are in a trend
(11:21 AM) BrainStorm: yes same jim
(11:21 AM) Daniel X: yes laging but just to filter trend versus hop
(11:21 AM) Daniel X: chop
(11:21 AM) Daniel X: look how strong it was this week
(11:22 AM) Daniel X: had alot of decent trends
(11:22 AM) BrainStorm: I dunno you would have only traded one day this week with ADX filter
(11:22 AM) jimbo_320: this flag wants to go up but having trouble
(11:22 AM) Daniel X: no 3 days
(11:22 AM) dbphoenix: Daniel, I wouldn't call myself a graduate.  But I've spent a couple of weeks with her after reading all the material she's provided, as well as the Road To Profits manual.
(11:22 AM) BrainStorm: And if you use it in small time frame you enter when ADX up just as trend ends and you are in chop again
(11:23 AM) Daniel X: ADX takes practice just like anything else
(11:23 AM) BrainStorm: I dont see it ...
(11:24 AM) dbphoenix: As far as the ADX goes, it's late only in hindsight.  More often than not, what we think is a trendchange is only chop.  If you're scalping, it doesn't really matter.  But the ADX is for larger moves.
(11:24 AM) BrainStorm: you can tell congestion in maybe as little as 4 bars certainly by 6 ADX hasnt even got going by then
(11:24 AM) jimbo_320: price, vol, ma,s indexes, tick, trin are all you need, everything else is a distraction
(11:25 AM) BrainStorm: bar up bar down bar up (with doji as wild card) = congestion
(11:25 AM) dbphoenix: If you're using it for larger point moves, you have to have at least 5m, 10m, 15m, and hourly charts set up so you can see the curl moving through the timeframes, just like Retro uses the 5m to get a sense of underlying direction for the the 15m bar breakout.
(11:25 AM) Daniel X: oh yes i agree im just saying for those who want trends and are not interested in chop scalping
(11:25 AM) BrainStorm: large bar with 4 bars opening or closing 'inside' = congestion
(11:25 AM) jimbo_320: trendlines
(11:25 AM) BrainStorm: plus a few other patterns that nail it way before ADX
(11:26 AM) BrainStorm: each to there own though :-) many ways to skin  a cat
(11:26 AM) dbphoenix: MAs can help as well.  I see little difference between those and ADX as long as one is looking at several timeframes simultaneously.  
(11:27 AM) dbphoenix: As for patterns, those are in the eye of the chartist.  Price points aren't.
(11:28 AM) BrainStorm: NOpe not at all DB I just said two that are completely definable no if but or maybe
(11:28 AM) Daniel X: what i've done is opened separate accounts  i trade 1 with scalps and have a buddy  trade Retro on the other for me...but he's been in Jamaica for a month now so i'm doing a bit of both.
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(11:28 AM) BrainStorm: up bar down bar up bar (with doji wild card)
(11:28 AM) BrainStorm: 4 bars that have open or close 'inside' the bar 4 bars ago
(11:28 AM) dbphoenix: Yes, BS, but you're doing the defining.  The bar itself is unchangeable.
(11:29 AM) BrainStorm: sure but if you look back on congestion (which is quite easy to 'see' after the fact) you will nearly always see these patterns
(11:29 AM) BrainStorm: pattern isnt a good word
(11:29 AM) BrainStorm: they aer clearly defined like 1-2-3 etc
(11:30 AM) dbphoenix: For example, there may or may not be an MA crossover depending on what MAs you use.  But support is determined by whether or not a particular point is tested, and that is outside the control of the chartist.
(11:30 AM) BrainStorm: another one is 4 bars with 2 identical highs & 2 ientical lows within the 4 bars
(11:30 AM) dbphoenix: But 1-2-3 isn't clearly defined either.  Some people use bodies, some people use shadows.
(11:31 AM) BrainStorm: the way I use it is differnt
(11:31 AM) BrainStorm: as per Joe ross law of charts
(11:31 AM) jimbo_320: we are under 1065 R1 on ES 
(11:31 AM) BrainStorm: any 5 people define it that way it would be the same
(11:31 AM) BrainStorm: same with congestion
(11:32 AM) dbphoenix: But he chooses the number of bars to define all those patterns.  There's nothing inherent in the chart.
(11:32 AM) BrainStorm: Understand what you are saying db
(11:32 AM) BrainStorm: yes he does
(11:32 AM) dbphoenix: Not that there's anything wrong with that.
(11:34 AM) dbphoenix: But it's important to look for genuine and demonstrable support and resistance rather than assume that s/r will be found at particular pattern points, like tweezers.
(11:34 AM) BrainStorm: I prefer definitions to be clear cut that frees your mind to be discretionary on the trade
(11:34 AM) BrainStorm: sure agree
(11:34 AM) ann_87: ticks 500 again
(11:34 AM) jimbo_320: sold half for +2 ES
(11:35 AM) dbphoenix: I guess you've had success with congestion breakouts, but I haven't.  I find them to be a source of traps more often than not.  But I have more success with what he calls the Trader's Trick, which is essentially what Teresa teachers.
(11:35 AM) BrainStorm: yeah traders trick is great
(11:35 AM) BrainStorm: I have problems with BO's too db
(11:36 AM) dbphoenix: Everybody has their own filters.  The fewer, the better.  Like Buffy's 9 and 20p.
(11:36 AM) BrainStorm: I have something that I might try... I think it might work
(11:39 AM) dbphoenix: I guess I'd rather be a little late and be consistently profitable than try to be early and get chopped up.  But that's my risk profile.  Won't be shared with everybody.
(11:39 AM) ann_87: trin still dropping 
(11:39 AM) BrainStorm: quite often get a false breakout
(11:39 AM) Orprepus: brb
(11:39 AM) jimbo_320: we are about downtrend line on es
(11:39 AM) BrainStorm: another JR tequnique is take the second BO
(11:39 AM) BrainStorm: fewer set ups but very safe
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(11:39 AM) BrainStorm: particularly if you have a false BO the other isde of the congestion
(11:39 AM) jimbo_320: i find buying the retracement after the breakout often works
(11:39 AM) dbphoenix: Here, for example, I preferred to take the breakout of that downbar ten minutes ago than to try and catch the breakout through the trendline.
(11:39 AM) BrainStorm: absolutely jimbo
(11:39 AM) BrainStorm: probably my best trade is that first retracement
(11:39 AM) BrainStorm: same as a retro add
(11:39 AM) jimbo_320: 3rd test is best
(11:39 AM) dbphoenix: I've been in the market for 12 years, but have only been trading for a few months, and one thing I've learned is that those inflection points can kill you.
(11:39 AM) Daniel X: agree DB...you don't have to get the bottom or the top as long as you know how to get the whole middle!!
(11:40 AM) dbphoenix: Agree, jimbo.  Notice that breakout two days ago was the third attempt.
(11:40 AM) jimbo_320: 3rd fails its usally a non starter
(11:40 AM) dbphoenix: I like what Ross says about the business aspects.  That your goal is to make consistent profits, not to go for the touchdown every time (sorry to mix metaphors).
(11:41 AM) BrainStorm: in fact if you filter that first retracement you have a very high probability trade
(11:41 AM) dbphoenix: Agree, jimbo.  Then you've got a triple top.
(11:41 AM) BrainStorm: yes sd
(11:41 AM) BrainStorm: oops yes db
(11:41 AM) dbphoenix: That's pretty much what Wayne was saying at the site yesterday.
(11:41 AM) Daniel X: 11:40 friday low volume ...hhmmmm....think thers goanna be follow through on signals and if ther are is it goning to hold and be worth the effort?
(11:41 AM) dbphoenix: About the filter, BS.
(11:41 AM) BrainStorm: where you here when I mentioned I had mentoring from him recently
(11:41 AM) BrainStorm: Nie guy bit of an old hippy I rekon
(11:42 AM) dbphoenix: Yes, I remember.
(11:42 AM) jimbo_320: chop til pm and take out the lows imo
(11:42 AM) BrainStorm: there is a couple he uses nothing earth shattering retrace bar must be above a 20ma for example
(11:42 AM) Daniel X: PB due yes
(11:43 AM) dbphoenix: Is there any interest in using the emini traders group site to discuss this stuff by email?  It's way off topic for the retro group, and the emini site isn't being used exc for chat, AFAIK.
(11:43 AM) jimbo_320: lets see if there are any tl buyers at 65
(11:44 AM) BrainStorm: yes excuse me everyone prattling on (tend to do it when I want to keep myself out the market)
(11:44 AM) Daniel X: sure DB ...u mean nightly or live intraday/
(11:44 AM) Daniel X: ?
(11:44 AM) BrainStorm: I think he meant something like yahoo groubs Dan
(11:45 AM) dbphoenix: No, not chat.  Just email.  There are 23 members but no messages.  Maybe this stuff is too distracting during the day.  And there's no record of any of it.
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(11:45 AM) Daniel X: yah i know but in the background while otherts are trading or after hours was my question?
(11:45 AM) dbphoenix: It's the Yahoo group linked from dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.
(11:45 AM) dbphoenix: Email can be sent any time.
(11:46 AM) BrainStorm: there are lots of trading mail lists out there does anyone use any that already exist ?
(11:46 AM) jimbo_320: out the rest +2
(11:46 AM) dbphoenix: Same setup as the retro group, but it's the other group provided by dbq.
(11:47 AM) Daniel X: yes but r u saying that because you want us to refrain from discussing anything else but Retro during market hours is the point im trying to make/
(11:47 AM) BrainStorm: tempted short at 1247
(11:48 AM) dbphoenix: It's http://groups,yahoo.com/group/e-mini_traders_anon.  If nobody's interested, that's fine.  I just don't want to clog up the retro site with a lot of OT emails.
(11:48 AM) elly_34: i didn't know about that
(11:48 AM) elly_34: one
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(11:48 AM) dbphoenix: No, I'm not trying to get anybody to refrain from anything.  But I don't use retro and all this may be distracting to people who do.
(11:48 AM) dbphoenix: And, as I said, there's no record of it.
(11:48 AM) jimbo_320: 3 legs on that last uptrend
(11:49 AM) dbphoenix: No record of what's said, that is.
(11:49 AM) Daniel X: nooo not at all...the group is call E mini traders not Retro traders
(11:49 AM) Daniel X: retro is just one style used here
(11:50 AM) Orprepus: back
(11:51 AM) dbphoenix: Anybody who's having trouble finding and using filters or understanding pattern or whatever, though, might benefit from email since charts can be annotated and attached as examples.
(11:51 AM) dbphoenix: Just a suggestion.  If nobody's interested, that's fine.
(11:51 AM) BrainStorm: out 1244 +3
(11:51 AM) dave_b_quik: great idea, db
(11:51 AM) Daniel X: true
(11:51 AM) Daniel X: more work for Buffy !!!
(11:52 AM) Daniel X: and Dave !
(11:52 AM) dbphoenix: Well that little breakout went nowhere.
(11:52 AM) dbphoenix: No work at all.  It's all set up.  It's just a matter of using it.  And charts aren't uploaded to the site; they're attached to the email.
(11:52 AM) Daniel X: friday lunch i didn't really expect it to.
(11:52 AM) BrainStorm: conversly this could be the first pullback entry
(11:52 AM) Daniel X: oh as attachments ok kewl
(11:52 AM) dave_b_quik: LOL actually in the mail lists everybody contributes, so takes some heat off me
(11:53 AM) jimbo_320: dow neckline retracement was to 9050 didnt get there
(11:53 AM) BrainStorm: yes mail list is a great format
(11:53 AM) BrainStorm: can have charts attached...go at your own pace refer back easy
(11:53 AM) Daniel X: the only problem is some people do not like to accept attachments
(11:54 AM) dbphoenix: I agree, dave.  I expect my group to do the work.  If all they want is to ask me questions on what they ought to do, there ain't gonna be much going on.
(11:54 AM) jimbo_320: jpgs are ok no viruses
(11:54 AM) BrainStorm: No should certainly be a 'discussion' group
(11:54 AM) dbphoenix: True, jimbo.  And the better email programs all prescan attachments for viruses.
(11:55 AM) BrainStorm: 5 min bounced down off the 200 & 50mas Id say dwon down from here
(11:55 AM) Daniel X: yes but make sure it looks like this.." ********.jpg" not "****jpg.exe "
(11:55 AM) dbphoenix: LOL
(11:55 AM) jimbo_320: i will no open anything else EVER period
(11:55 AM) jimbo_320: not
(11:55 AM) BrainStorm: get hit jimbo ?
(11:55 AM) jimbo_320: no thats why
(11:56 AM) jimbo_320: i have a firewall, anti virus, pgp, i am secure
(11:56 AM) dbphoenix: Nothing is downloaded, however.  Just opened.  No different from a cartoon.
(11:56 AM) BrainStorm: anyone short ?
(11:56 AM) jimbo_320: y
(11:57 AM) Daniel X: you can splice a virus with a jpg or gif   pic etc  the suffix has to be last though not before the dot
(11:57 AM) jimbo_320: scalp though
(11:57 AM) BrainStorm: from where jimbo ?
(11:57 AM) jimbo_320: 64.5, hoped for more clunk
(11:57 AM) dbphoenix: I hope anyone who uses the internet regularly undestands how viruses are triggered.
(11:57 AM) Daniel X: yah thats my point DB
(11:58 AM) jimbo_320: lots of buyers out there
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(11:58 AM) BrainStorm: of course forgot you where S&Ping
(11:58 AM) BrainStorm: same entry as mine on the Nas though I quit on the frist wiggle
(11:59 AM) jimbo_320: hoped for 62
(11:59 AM) Daniel X: Jimbo doesn't matter just don't open a    . exe   no pictures need to be executed thats how they do it
(12:00 PM) jimbo_320: exes dont get through
(12:00 PM) Daniel X: oh ok good
(12:00 PM) dbphoenix: It's no different from going to the dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart site and opening up a chart image there.
(12:00 PM) jimbo_320: rarely open a word doc unless i scan it first
(12:00 PM) BrainStorm: some of the nasty virus's used things like jpg's and wavs cause they know explorer opens them
(12:00 PM) dave_b_quik: .bat files are dangerous too
(12:01 PM) BrainStorm: that's OK now if yu have ALL the MS security fixes
(12:01 PM) dbphoenix: I don't open anything that has a file extension unless I know the person and I've scanned it six ways from Sunday.
(12:01 PM) jimbo_320: .bats are effectively exes
(12:01 PM) Daniel X: BTW if anyone wants me to check to see if they have any threaths on their comps i can do it righ now from here
(12:01 PM) Daniel X: not threaths   but vunerabilities
(12:02 PM) dbphoenix: Seems like this morning has taken a freaking week.
(12:02 PM) jimbo_320: covered half
(12:02 PM) BrainStorm: everyone expecting this pm to be quiet ?
(12:03 PM) BrainStorm: Its not that big a holiday is it ?
(12:03 PM) Daniel X: been doing alot of reading on hack protection and was shocked to find vunerabilities on alt of my friend's PCs
(12:03 PM) dbphoenix: I like the fact that we're finding support here.  The longer we stay here, the stronger it gets.
(12:03 PM) skyprince_1: I expect a sell off...no one wants to go home holding this weekend...
(12:04 PM) BrainStorm: most people dont bother hell I've had contracts consulting on securtiy and I only loaded zone alarm ayear ago
(12:04 PM) dbphoenix: As long as it holds above the LOD, that's okay by me.
(12:04 PM) BrainStorm: gonna turn back down here I rekon
(12:05 PM) Daniel X: BS i know they should and they don't bother because most have no idea how easy and what can be done
(12:05 PM) jimbo_320: going to do some decorating back after lunch
(12:05 PM) BrainStorm: yes it is real easy nowadays
(12:06 PM) BrainStorm: turn down about 54 based on the MA's
(12:06 PM) dbphoenix: I suspect people with home computers are probably more concerend.  If it's at work, who cares?
(12:06 PM) jimbo_320: lol
(12:07 PM) Daniel X: viruses are not the real problem..if your PC s crashes so what you got off easy....if you have server software on your comp that the biggie
(12:07 PM) BrainStorm: most companies have some sorta protection now. with all the email worms they have been hit if they dont
(12:07 PM) dbphoenix: I have friends who receive memo after memo about this stuff, but the braindead keep opening up the damn files anyway.
(12:07 PM) BrainStorm: here we go di it make 83
(12:07 PM) dbphoenix: ADX seems listless across the board.  A good filter test?
(12:08 PM) BrainStorm: sorry 53
(12:08 PM) Orprepus: thanks 83 what were you trading
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(12:09 PM) jimbo_320: i have a stop at 66.25 on the rest of my short while i do the decorating :-)
(12:09 PM) BrainStorm: wasnt Orpheus 53 was where a whole bunch of MA's seemed to be converging as was the price
(12:09 PM) jimbo_320: Posted a joke 'Ireland join the battle against terroism'
(12:10 PM) BrainStorm: perhaps you will be able to afford a new roller when you come back hehe
(12:10 PM) Orprepus: 123 on 2m
(12:10 PM) jimbo_320: lets hope so
(12:11 PM) BrainStorm: Think Im gonna play a bit too though going away flat here 
(12:11 PM) BrainStorm: later 
(12:12 PM) Daniel X: i use the 1 min frequently as a chop filter look at it now   yuck!
(12:12 PM) dbphoenix: I wish Ross hadn't absconded with the 1-2-3.  Now I don't know which 1-2-3 people are referring to.  Maybe we should use R1-2-3 and S1-2-3.
(12:12 PM) Orprepus: have a great weekend
(12:12 PM) dbphoenix: cya
(12:12 PM) ann_87: ticks minus 600
(12:12 PM) Daniel X: bye BS
(12:12 PM) Orprepus: peace
(12:12 PM) Daniel X: take care
(12:13 PM) Orprepus: have a good one Dan-X
(12:13 PM) Daniel X: you ORP
(12:13 PM) Daniel X: too
(12:13 PM) donsuelo: How does the Ross 123 differ?  Is there somewhere to read about it?
(12:14 PM) Orprepus: will do - still trading - my spouse wants to remodel
(12:15 PM) ppusa: orp, you short?
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(12:15 PM) Orprepus: again yes
(12:15 PM) Orprepus: 64.75 on es
(12:16 PM) ppusa: i was a little early on  nq (of course 48, covered here)
(12:16 PM) Orprepus: doing a little ping pong today
(12:17 PM) ppusa: ??? sold off, needed retest
(12:17 PM) Orprepus: think test of low
(12:18 PM) Orprepus: what do you see PnF
(12:18 PM) ppusa: The problem i had this morning is if we had turned up earlier, would have had to have gone to high. So they sold it off more, then retested. Fits into place now
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(12:18 PM) Orprepus: walking down teh 45 dwon channel on the 16M
(12:18 PM) ppusa: had buy sigs on way up, that reversed at 40
(12:19 PM) ppusa: after hitting 1225, 25 point needed upside reversal which occured
(12:20 PM) ppusa: only PnF left is upside reversal on 30 and that is one chart i usually ignore, not very reliable
(12:21 PM) ppusa: BUT, since 75 reversed down this morning, opens the door to up next week although more retracement occur
(12:22 PM) ppusa: Looking at daily charts, i don't see 1-2-3 correction off lows so could get another leg up bext week
(12:23 PM) Orprepus: we still need test of 9/21 low
(12:23 PM) ppusa: sure but maybe after another leg up?
(12:23 PM) ppusa: cannot say
(12:23 PM) ppusa: have nothing i can look at and say need this or that
(12:24 PM) Orprepus: Historically "V" bottoms not the norm
(12:24 PM) Orprepus: "W" is
(12:24 PM) ppusa: 30 point PnF could get more sold off instead of correction and 75 could retrace more down
(12:25 PM) ppusa: dIn order to get higher high as the monthly chart sits, Nas would have to get to much higher than here so likely down but when?
(12:26 PM) ppusa: regardless nq did not make a new high so chop until close or?
(12:26 PM) ppusa: actually right now it looks closed
(12:28 PM) jimmer49: Simply laying in wait near upper and lower bb (8 period) has worked well for me.  Have made 44 NQ points last 1 1/2 hrs all an small scalps 10 rt's. Don't usually do near this well with this approach, but working great today.
(12:28 PM) dbphoenix: donsuelo, the Ross 1-2-3 has to do with defining the high and low within a particular time segment so as to detect possible failure and potential trend reversal.  The Sperandeo 1-2-3 is similar, but begins with trendline failure.
(12:28 PM) Orprepus: looked at monthly chart of all indexs last night  - HS forming
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(12:29 PM) ppusa: those are good numbers for 10rt's jimmer
(12:29 PM) dbphoenix: pp, are you backing off because you had a crummy day yesterday?
(12:30 PM) jimmer49: all on 1 min
(12:30 PM) ppusa: no
(12:30 PM) dbphoenix: You seem unusually inactive.
(12:31 PM) Orprepus: dave how is retro doing?
(12:31 PM) ppusa: was trrading before open a bit, missed the up, early on the down...signals are good but timing a little off...19rt's
(12:32 PM) Orprepus: wow
(12:32 PM) dbphoenix: I suppose you're glad it's Friday.
(12:32 PM) Orprepus: 19rts
(12:32 PM) ppusa: yes, wasting good signals
(12:34 PM) ppusa: if i could have put together signals earlier today would have been fine...intraday hour chart needed up hour. thought it might occur higher than it did
(12:35 PM) ppusa: Best trade was premarket short at 72 which i didn't ride
(12:35 PM) ppusa: figured i would get up for the report
(12:35 PM) jimbo_320: that was profitable painting and decorating :-)
(12:36 PM) dbphoenix: This should be a good setup for Monday, though.  I'm going to spend some time studying LeBeau's stuff on DMI.
(12:36 PM) dbphoenix: this weekend.
(12:36 PM) dbphoenix: My way of honoring Columbus.
(12:36 PM) jimbo_320: covered +5
(12:38 PM) ppusa: interesting only up bar on 15 minute occurred off LOD
(12:38 PM) Orprepus: LeBeau book on Computer Analysisof the Futures Market  is great on DMI & ADX
(12:38 PM) ppusa: first up bar
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(12:39 PM) ppusa: Hey Orp, notice how nq dropped briefly below 29.5 and hasn't been back?
(12:40 PM) dbphoenix: Looks almost like a CWH.
(12:40 PM) ppusa: new HOD?
(12:40 PM) ppusa: or retest fail
(12:40 PM) Orprepus: yes see that
(12:41 PM) ppusa: certainly fits up next week
(12:41 PM) dbphoenix: Good ol' 1230.
(12:42 PM) ppusa: much higher than this and shold go +
(12:42 PM) jimbo_320: dow testing retracement trendline, pullback over ?
(12:43 PM) ppusa: low of 37 was right on 15 minute short term ma
(12:44 PM) ppusa: could see a new HOD before close
(12:44 PM) Merkur_: Hi
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(12:45 PM) Orprepus: 123 forming on my 16m
(12:46 PM) dbphoenix: Needs to get past 55.
(12:46 PM) ppusa: i may try to buy 48 area
(12:48 PM) Orprepus: still think it is a little early for afternoon bounce
(12:48 PM) ppusa: so buy pb or enter on stop?
(12:48 PM) dbphoenix: The Children of Teresa would wait for the pb.
(12:48 PM) Orprepus: should come after lunch hr
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(12:48 PM) ppusa: 48 reverses one PnF
(12:49 PM) jimbo_320: we are well positioned
(12:50 PM) ppusa: for?
(12:51 PM) jimbo_320: do you get the weakest link tv programme over there?
(12:51 PM) ppusa: unfortunately
(12:51 PM) jimbo_320: we have it on here with you americans trying to answer the questions :-)
(12:53 PM) jimbo_320: dow coiling up
(12:54 PM) ppusa: in w/ stop at 52
(12:55 PM) dbphoenix: Here we go.  Maybe.
(12:55 PM) jimbo_320: friday afternoon lunchtime rally, hmm
(12:56 PM) jimmer49: At about 1225 there was an macd conservative buy on NQ 5 min.  Picking an entry would have been a little difficult, but around 45.
(12:58 PM) dbphoenix: I saw that, jimmer.  I was going to ask you about it.
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(12:59 PM) ppusa: i tried for 48 and of course it hit 48.5 so i went market
(12:59 PM) dbphoenix: Not exactly taking off.
(12:59 PM) ppusa: still could
(12:59 PM) ppusa: fakey
(01:00 PM) ppusa: gogo
(01:00 PM) ppusa: 61.5 intraday high
(01:00 PM) ppusa: long 51.5
(01:00 PM) jimbo_320: some lucky beggers make 10$ a share om msft the last two weeks
(01:01 PM) ppusa: 4 sold 2 at 53, one at 55.5 running stop on last
(01:01 PM) ppusa: about to bail here
(01:01 PM) ppusa: flat
(01:02 PM) jimbo_320: es moving up at last
(01:03 PM) ppusa: if nq goes a lot higher i will scream
(01:03 PM) jimbo_320: ahhhh
(01:03 PM) ppusa: had a nice stop on that trade
(01:03 PM) Orprepus: posted 4m es PP chart
(01:04 PM) jimbo_320: 65 sees 70+
(01:04 PM) Orprepus: what a come back for NQ - but dow and sp not coming
(01:05 PM) dbphoenix: NQ has catching up to do, tho.  Would be nice if they all traded in tandem.
(01:05 PM) ppusa: winding up for a good scream
(01:05 PM) Orprepus: agree naz way behind sp & dow on retrace off low 
(01:05 PM) ppusa: little obot here
(01:06 PM) ppusa: PnF's due for 10-15 point retracement
(01:06 PM) dbphoenix: Dow and S&P have really nice TLs on the hourly.  The Naz looks like hell.
(01:06 PM) jimbo_320: sold half for +3.5
(01:06 PM) ppusa: retested low and took out high,  see it all clearly
(01:06 PM) ppusa: NOW
(01:07 PM) dbphoenix: Two weeks' worth of hourly, that is.
(01:07 PM) ppusa: good trade here, hope y'all got a piece
(01:08 PM) jimbo_320: ppusa scalper turned breakout buyer nice one
(01:08 PM) ppusa: haha
(01:08 PM) ppusa: i needed that
(01:08 PM) dbphoenix: I waited for confirmation , like a good little boy.
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(01:09 PM) jimbo_320: es just has to overcome 65 to play catch up
(01:09 PM) ppusa: kinda already had it, how many do you need?
(01:09 PM) Orprepus: T would be proud
(01:09 PM) gunner-: anyone see big H&S on 5min charts ?? ES or NQ?
(01:10 PM) dbphoenix: One of my signatures is "lessons are repeated until they are learned".  I got another lesson yesterday.  I hope I've learned it finally.
(01:10 PM) ppusa: i want to short for drop, waiting for ???
(01:10 PM) ppusa: thinking now HOD
(01:10 PM) gunner-: don't think folks want to hold positions into weekend..
(01:11 PM) jimbo_320: 70 neckline ?
(01:11 PM) ppusa: scalper +4
(01:11 PM) gunner-: could create conditions for big selloff this aft
(01:11 PM) ppusa: so now HOD and LOD are in
(01:11 PM) dbphoenix: Maybe, gunner.
(01:11 PM) ppusa: setup for Monday
(01:11 PM) gunner-: jimbo more like 60
(01:11 PM) dbphoenix: Re the H&S.
(01:12 PM) ppusa: bottom should drop out of this 15 minute bar
(01:13 PM) dbe510: dbe510 @ hotmail com
(01:13 PM) dbphoenix: Volume seems right for it, gunner.
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(01:15 PM) jimbo_320: h+s how many days?
(01:16 PM) ppusa: make new highs or HOD???
(01:16 PM) dbphoenix: Just today, I believe.
(01:16 PM) dbphoenix: It's pretty clear on the 10m, but I can't see us breaking through that level on a Friday afternoon. 
(01:17 PM) jam_27: h+s = ?
(01:18 PM) dbphoenix: But as I said earlier, so much of this is in the mind.
(01:18 PM) dbphoenix: h+s= head and shoulders
(01:18 PM) jimbo_320: looks like a w bottom to me
(01:18 PM) Orprepus: dow & sp not helping
(01:18 PM) jam_27: thanks, duh
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(01:19 PM) dbphoenix: W would be okay.  Both mean up.
(01:19 PM) laniermasters: Been away for a while and reading back through discussion - very interesting.  I've been saving the logs from this week to review at my leisure.  Would you like for me to post them, or send to Dave to post?
(01:19 PM) jimbo_320: on es>
(01:19 PM) jimbo_320: u mean inverted?
(01:19 PM) dbphoenix: What leisure?
(01:19 PM) dbphoenix: <g>
(01:19 PM) laniermasters: actually - I haven't gotten around to reading them yet!
(01:20 PM) laniermasters: bits and pieces, learning.
(01:20 PM) dbphoenix: This could be a retest of support.
(01:20 PM) dbphoenix: Are there buyers or not?
(01:21 PM) ppusa: high and low are in
(01:21 PM) ppusa: go home
(01:21 PM) gunner-: short 1062  we c :)
(01:21 PM) Orprepus: am home
(01:21 PM) laniermasters: 1266 is a .786 fib retracement, probably safer to be short.
(01:21 PM) ppusa: go outside
(01:21 PM) Orprepus: can I get out of my pj's
(01:21 PM) dbphoenix: outside.  what outside?  don't know outside.
(01:21 PM) ppusa: why i don't
(01:21 PM) jimbo_320: flat here chop trading soon
(01:22 PM) ppusa: could make new highs
(01:22 PM) dbphoenix: pj's?  
(01:22 PM) Orprepus: pp gray day down in the bay
(01:22 PM) ppusa: i have to update quicken
(01:22 PM) Orprepus: pajamas
(01:22 PM) jimbo_320: only 1.20
(01:22 PM) ppusa: certain charts look obot so i think range is in
(01:22 PM) dbphoenix: what are pajamas?  I'm just sitting here . . . well, never mind.
(01:23 PM) Orprepus: dow acclerating
(01:23 PM) ppusa: Orp one summer i lived above La Jolla and NEVER saw the sun
(01:23 PM) ppusa: Onshore drift
(01:23 PM) ppusa: here sunny all the time unless doing something
(01:24 PM) ppusa: not inbetween crap
(01:24 PM) Orprepus: dp don't want to know
(01:25 PM) dbphoenix: Why do you think I don't use a videocam? :0)
(01:25 PM) Orprepus: yeah burn off on coast never happens in the summer - usually does in the bay little late today
(01:26 PM) Orprepus: I bet you use one - but just not on the web
(01:26 PM) donsuelo: Pajamas are what Groucho shoots elephants in
(01:26 PM) dbphoenix: <g>
(01:27 PM) dbphoenix: In my youth, Orp.
(01:27 PM) Orprepus: pj's are what my spouse wears to drive the kids car pool for school
(01:27 PM) jimbo_320: jnpr rbak +11% +15% today
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(01:30 PM) jimmer49: macd cons buy here on 3 min NQ
(01:31 PM) jimmer49: not doing much though
(01:32 PM) ppusa: maybe it's time to start trading stocks again
(01:32 PM) dbphoenix: Does he use the ADX as a trend filter at all when applying the MACD buy?
(01:32 PM) ppusa: i made a lot of $scalping intraday
(01:32 PM) ann_87: sp and dow in 15 min triangle time
(01:32 PM) jimmer49: Who, you mean mike?
(01:32 PM) dbphoenix: Yeah
(01:32 PM) jimmer49: Mike doesn't use adx
(01:32 PM) dbphoenix: ok
(01:33 PM) jimmer49: Well, that one was a scratch for me
(01:33 PM) ann_87: Mike uses ema's  to determine trend
(01:33 PM) Orprepus: T Lo uses ADX
(01:34 PM) ppusa: 15oint PnF needs downside reversal. If this occurs, i will have no buy or sell signals on any charts
(01:34 PM) ann_87: and he uses 20/9
(01:34 PM) Orprepus: ADX helps determine strength of trend
(01:34 PM) ann_87: yes, but mike does not use it
(01:34 PM) Orprepus: thats alls
(01:34 PM) jimmer49: I think ADX is a rear view mirror
(01:35 PM) dbphoenix: As I said, I need to revisit LeBeau.  My results are so much better with a filter.
(01:35 PM) Orprepus: everything lags
(01:35 PM) dbphoenix: But DMI leads the ADX.
(01:35 PM) Orprepus: still lags
(01:35 PM) ann_87: adx helps me alot
(01:36 PM) ppusa: 15 point reversed, need 16 to reverse at 48 to 50, then no signals
(01:36 PM) Orprepus: just try and use with patterns to forecast future move
(01:37 PM) jimmer49: My trend filter is usually the slow line on macd 3,11,5
(01:37 PM) Orprepus: if give you better than 50% - you have an edge
(01:37 PM) jimmer49: on 5 min
(01:38 PM) dbphoenix: Everything lags price.  But going by pattern alone has its own problems.
(01:38 PM) gunner-: need trin up and DOW failure st 9000, ,we collect some change :)
(01:39 PM) Orprepus: agree dp that why systems fail eventually  - but a method doesn't
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(01:39 PM) Orprepus: method allows you to adapt to market - trade where the market tells you to
(01:40 PM) dbphoenix: Not referring to a system, just a filter to avoid chop.
(01:41 PM) ann_87: minus 29 tiki
(01:41 PM) gunner-: here we go,, good trin move
(01:42 PM) donsuelo: Been using dmi for scalps 0n 30 min today.... 4 for 4... maybe just luck
(01:43 PM) jimmer49: Can you say how many points on those 4?
(01:43 PM) jimmer49: And what is your trigger poin - crossover?
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(01:50 PM) jimbo_320: clunk in the last 15?
Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
(01:55 PM) jimbo_320: must be a sell coming up soon
(01:56 PM) jhemm: s
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(01:59 PM) jimmer49: Nothing working real well for me here. Am long nQ at 52 on macd cons buy 5 min
(02:00 PM) ppusa: higher highs, higher lows nq
(02:02 PM) dbphoenix: Not what I would call exuberant.
(02:03 PM) Orprepus: naz is trying hard to rally - but not many buyers yet
(02:03 PM) jimbo_320: chop
(02:03 PM) dbphoenix: Now if this were a Tuesday . . . . .
(02:04 PM) jimmer49: Taking the money here
(02:04 PM) jimbo_320: 3 leg up on nqoos
(02:04 PM) Orprepus: dow and sp basically unchanged for last 2hrs
(02:04 PM) Orprepus: Tuesday in Toledo
(02:05 PM) jimbo_320: dow looking toppy
(02:06 PM) ppusa: go positive today?
(02:06 PM) ppusa: higher highs, higher lows
(02:07 PM) dbphoenix: Maybe not.
(02:07 PM) jimbo_320: friday surprise?
(02:08 PM) ppusa: well i thought range was in but
(02:09 PM) dbphoenix: This trend has been pretty gradual, so it may not break it hard.  Could just drift thru to a 1-2-3.
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(02:09 PM) dbphoenix: NQ, that is.
(02:10 PM) ppusa: if breaks, could easily run up to closer to yester high
(02:10 PM) ppusa: 1300 area
(02:10 PM) ppusa: deceptive
(02:10 PM) dbphoenix: That would make a good beginning to next week.
(02:13 PM) jimbo_320: wheres buffy this week hols?
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(02:18 PM) jimbo_320: last ditch assault on 65
(02:18 PM) ppusa: should have been buying every dip today after LOD
(02:19 PM) ppusa: long again
(02:19 PM) ppusa: out
(02:19 PM) jimbo_320: resistance is futile, you will go down
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(02:19 PM) Tom_B: any esig users have data prob 1st hr ?
(02:20 PM) Orprepus: not here
(02:20 PM) Orprepus: yesterday had bad prem data
(02:20 PM) Tom_B: tnx
(02:20 PM) jimbo_320: gunner u still here?
(02:20 PM) Tom_B: i've got data hole , can't figure it out...even restart & doesn't fill in..
(02:20 PM) gunner-: yes
(02:20 PM) elly_34: in ensign?
(02:21 PM) ppusa: higher highs, higher lows, nq
(02:21 PM) Tom_B: ADvGet & esig
(02:21 PM) ppusa: 1300 here comes
(02:21 PM) ppusa: ???
(02:21 PM) jimbo_320: do you know if quote.com stopping the freebie es when the exchange fees start?
(02:22 PM) elly_34: dunno
(02:22 PM) Orprepus: think everyone will stop free mini come Feb. 2002
(02:22 PM) gunner-: jimbo  only know Nextrend goona charge after 6 months free
(02:23 PM) jimbo_320: is that when they start 2002?
(02:23 PM) Orprepus: than $10 month additional for just miin from cme
(02:24 PM) ppusa: big rally coming nq
(02:25 PM) jimbo_320: friday afternoon rally, this sniffs of a bull market
(02:26 PM) Orprepus: dow unwinding
(02:26 PM) jimbo_320: sold right off
(02:28 PM) jimmer49: short 68.5
(02:29 PM) ppusa: have hunch markets will recover more but may wait until Monday. Each pullback could be viewed as good sign of continuation of up
(02:29 PM) ppusa: Deer here
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(02:29 PM) ppusa: may buy next new high nq
(02:30 PM) jimbo_320: deer?
(02:31 PM) ppusa: if you view today as the first correction in an up trend, it changes your perspective
(02:31 PM) ppusa: tired neednap
(02:31 PM) jimmer49: out b/e
(02:37 PM) ppusa: ifwe all assumed the markets had bottomed, we would betrading differently
(02:38 PM) jimbo_320: does that mean i'll have to pay 10$ for my charts and $10 for my broker feed?
(02:38 PM) jimmer49: did u buy this pp?
(02:38 PM) ppusa: in and out
(02:38 PM) ppusa: hindsight sure was easy
(02:39 PM) jimmer49: not what I was expecting
(02:39 PM) ppusa: when i realized higher highs, higher lows, reaally woke me up
(02:39 PM) ppusa: i think too many bears in this room
(02:39 PM) ppusa: missing big picture
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(02:40 PM) ppusa: we allmade it going short now take notice
(02:40 PM) jimmer49: what is the big picture?
(02:40 PM) ppusa: think daily too good to be so negative
(02:41 PM) jimmer49: yes, but also it is a Friday in Ocotber with threat of war
(02:41 PM) ppusa: too early to tell but i don't want to be the last to find out
(02:42 PM) ppusa: monday should tell dependiing on which way we go but the PnF sure was a wakeup for today... I said 1225 and look!!!
(02:42 PM) ppusa: easy to say now here i know 
(02:43 PM) jimmer49: but you did say that
(02:43 PM) ppusa: just went short too
(02:43 PM) ppusa: oh well
(02:43 PM) ppusa: scalp
(02:45 PM) ppusa: i wishi could have put the charts together for a better picture rather than now in hindsight
(02:45 PM) ppusa: one look at the daily suggested a better HOD than what we had.
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(02:45 PM) Orprepus: that was the train
(02:46 PM) Orprepus: whooo  whooo
(02:46 PM) ppusa: we should have been snapping them up all day long and out here
(02:46 PM) ppusa: flat now
(02:47 PM) ppusa: yesterday i said today's high should be above 1276
(02:48 PM) ppusa: kinda makes me look like a moron all the way to the bank
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(02:54 PM) Buffy_04364: hi all
(02:54 PM) Buffy_04364: gee quiet inhere LOL
(02:55 PM) ppusa: hi Buffy
(02:55 PM) ppusa: where y been?
(02:55 PM) Buffy_04364: woking on stuff with howard and getting ready for my brother coming arriving on sunday instead of weds  :-)
(02:55 PM) Buffy_04364: just busy busy
(02:56 PM) Buffy_04364: missed you all though
(02:56 PM) Buffy_04364: you still the daddy pp?
(02:56 PM) ppusa: urjfnajf
(02:57 PM) ppusa: i said 1225 low but didn't golong
(02:57 PM) Buffy_04364: nice call
(02:57 PM) ppusa: been in and out
(02:58 PM) ppusa: i looked at 1 minute awhile back and realized higher highs, higher lows, because of you
(02:58 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(02:58 PM) ppusa: you always bring that up
(02:58 PM) Buffy_04364: it works
(02:58 PM) ppusa: sure did today
(02:58 PM) ppusa: when started back up, i bot
(02:58 PM) Buffy_04364: hmmm very seldom doesn't
(02:59 PM) ppusa: very bullish daily chart pattern
(02:59 PM) ppusa: 1225 reversed the last PnF that needed it and now look
(02:59 PM) Buffy_04364: yes turned market around when president speaking to congree
(02:59 PM) Buffy_04364: move about over I think for now though 
(02:59 PM) Buffy_04364: we will see
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(03:00 PM) Buffy_04364: does pnf show a retracement due
(03:00 PM) ppusa: 15 points
(03:00 PM) ppusa: just went to short but Pats locked meout
(03:01 PM) Buffy_04364: be a while before I use that I think
(03:01 PM) ppusa: i imagine a little pb on mondaythen up
(03:02 PM) Buffy_04364: bonds closed monday but market open right
(03:02 PM) Buffy_04364: making a shelf now
(03:03 PM) Orprepus: yes buffy
(03:03 PM) ppusa: open
(03:03 PM) Buffy_04364: hi orp
(03:03 PM) Buffy_04364: told howard to pm me if he needed me
(03:09 PM) ppusa: Daily chart looks much better now with this high
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(03:11 PM) Buffy_04364: yep it does and if today - need lower low now which today might turn out to be
(03:12 PM) ppusa: u referring to lower low on daily. (which today is)
(03:12 PM) ppusa: or close down?
(03:12 PM) Buffy_04364: yes but anything can happen between now and close
(03:13 PM) Buffy_04364: closing above open would be icing on the cake
(03:13 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(03:13 PM) Buffy_04364: doesn't look it though
(03:13 PM) ppusa: for what?
(03:13 PM) ppusa: an up?
(03:13 PM) Buffy_04364: close above open
(03:14 PM) ppusa: close above as trap or up next week
(03:14 PM) Buffy_04364: 1266.55 would be nice to hold
(03:14 PM) Buffy_04364: what do you show as having to hold
(03:14 PM) Buffy_04364: up next week
(03:15 PM) richard_341: hi all
(03:16 PM) ppusa: if nq was to rally next week, I would like to see last week's high of 29.5 hold
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(03:16 PM) richard_341: any scots in here
(03:16 PM) Buffy_04364: hi richard
(03:17 PM) ppusa: other than this PnF's are neutral. At one point today NONE of them today were in buy or sell signals
(03:17 PM) Buffy_04364: that is a long way down on pyra
(03:17 PM) Buffy_04364: what time?
(03:18 PM) Buffy_04364: do you remember
(03:19 PM) ppusa: 10:50   
(03:19 PM) ppusa: pst
(03:19 PM) Buffy_04364: ok 3:19 hree now diff is?
(03:19 PM) Buffy_04364: 2hrs?
(03:19 PM) Buffy_04364: or 3hrs?
(03:19 PM) ppusa: nq low next week above high prior to this week 1229.5
(03:20 PM) ppusa: 3 hours
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(03:20 PM) Buffy_04364: so 2 here
(03:21 PM) Buffy_04364: tks pp
(03:22 PM) ppusa: 10:50 plus 3 hours = 1:50 est      you know how the high of a couple days back can become support for a low for the day
(03:22 PM) ann_87: nq testing afternoon high 67
(03:22 PM) Buffy_04364: BOS should hold
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: for now anyway
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: could be ann
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: might just be a flag also
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: then continue down
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: we will see
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: how are things going for you?
(03:23 PM) ppusa: did I say 15 point drop at HOD?    Who's your daddy?
(03:24 PM) ann_87: fine
(03:25 PM) Orprepus: you the daddy
(03:25 PM) Orprepus: daddy can I borrow the car tonight
(03:25 PM) ppusa: i am so gooddd
(03:25 PM) ppusa: why aren't i rich?
(03:28 PM) Buffy_04364: holy grail is yourself
(03:28 PM) Buffy_04364: it was a flag ann
(03:29 PM) ann_87: a what flag buffy?
(03:29 PM) Buffy_04364: ok what is lowest TF you watch ann
(03:30 PM) Buffy_04364: bear flag
(03:30 PM) ann_87: well, depends
(03:30 PM) Buffy_04364: that you have chart for up
(03:30 PM) ann_87: are you saying bear flg on 1 min
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(03:30 PM) ann_87: i can see 1 3 5 9 15
(03:30 PM) Buffy_04364: harder to see on 1n
(03:30 PM) Buffy_04364: 1m
(03:30 PM) Buffy_04364: oklet me check
(03:31 PM) Buffy_04364: no flags on minute charts sorry
(03:31 PM) ann_87: yea was just noting the pivot
(03:31 PM) Orprepus: hey buffy one of your triangle thingy on 2 & 4 m
(03:31 PM) flair99ta: merci ,muchas gracias,thank you PALS...take care ..please have a nice safe weekend oxxo :-)
(03:31 PM) ann_87: we have 62 area support too
(03:32 PM) Buffy_04364: poke bar orp?
(03:33 PM) Buffy_04364: off the TL up
(03:33 PM) ann_87: trendline of low at 10:30 on nq still not broken
(03:36 PM) auditor28: hello
(03:36 PM) auditor28: how are you all
(03:36 PM) Buffy_04364: hi auditor
(03:37 PM) Buffy_04364: no it isn't ann
(03:37 PM) auditor28: hello buffy
(03:37 PM) auditor28: I am business man
(03:37 PM) auditor28: may ý speak here about my business
(03:37 PM) Buffy_04364: we are traders
(03:37 PM) auditor28: ok
(03:37 PM) ann_87: sorry buffy mine is
(03:37 PM) auditor28: so what do you sell and but
(03:37 PM) auditor28: hello ann
(03:38 PM) auditor28: I am in marbel and hazelnuts business in Turkey
(03:38 PM) auditor28: May I find someone who intersted in my work
(03:38 PM) auditor28: buffy can you reply please
(03:38 PM) Buffy_04364: busy trading 
(03:38 PM) Buffy_04364: posted 3m ann
(03:40 PM) Buffy_04364: an expanding wedge - hmmm
(03:40 PM) ann_87: yea buffy that is waht i said...... price is staying above trendline
(03:40 PM) ann_87: i.e. it did not break it to downside
(03:40 PM) Buffy_04364: correct
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(03:40 PM) ann_87: price is having support
(03:40 PM) ann_87: that is what i said
(03:40 PM) Buffy_04364: shure is 
(03:40 PM) ann_87: i said it is not broken
(03:41 PM) ann_87: you said no ann
(03:41 PM) ann_87: so what is no ann?
(03:41 PM) ann_87: what you posted is exactly what i said buffy
(03:41 PM) Buffy_04364: no ann it isn't was to your comment of trendline of low at 10:30 on nq still not broken
(03:42 PM) Buffy_04364: yep and I agreed with you
(03:42 PM) AlRB0RNE: auditor I do not want to talk  with you 
(03:42 PM) Buffy_04364: as I just said
(03:42 PM) ann_87: to what did you said no to then?
(03:42 PM) ann_87: did i word something incorrectly for you?
(03:43 PM) Buffy_04364: no ann it isn't was to your comment of trendline of low at 10:30 on nq still not broken
(03:43 PM) auditor28: ok
(03:43 PM) Buffy_04364: you said trendline of low at 10:30 on nq still not broken
(03:43 PM) Buffy_04364: I said no ann it isn't
(03:44 PM) ann_87: you mean right it is not broken .......oh ok
(03:44 PM) Buffy_04364: then you said sorry buffy mine is which confused me as I had just agreed with you
(03:44 PM) Buffy_04364: which is why I posted the chart
(03:44 PM) ann_87: ok, i misunderstood you , i.e. i thought you said yours was broken
(03:44 PM) Buffy_04364: end of all confusion
(03:45 PM) ann_87: yeah
(03:45 PM) Buffy_04364: easy thank to snagit LOL
(03:45 PM) ann_87: guess hard to trade and read quickly room and understand everything clearly .....sorry
(03:45 PM) Buffy_04364: no prob ann it happens
(03:46 PM) Buffy_04364: especially when I don't watch for a bit and answer ? as I read them
(03:46 PM) Buffy_04364: brb
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(03:47 PM) Ensign Software: buffy, walk me through using bean2 script on a 15 min chart
(03:47 PM) Ensign Software: which charts are needed and which buttons to click
(03:47 PM) Ensign Software: ignore this if you are trading and busy
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(03:57 PM) Buffy_04364: anyone know why the hours for the futures market are sent each week by best?
(03:57 PM) Buffy_04364: are they not back to normal or something?
(03:58 PM) ann_87: bonds and currencies different hours today and monday as columbus day
(03:59 PM) ann_87: nasdaq up 9% on week and sp up 3%
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(04:04 PM) ann_87: is that just a fluke that the nq found support after pulling back 100pts LOL
(04:04 PM) Buffy_04364: who knows ann
(04:04 PM) Buffy_04364: in middle of wedge on 9m
(04:05 PM) ann_87: was just trivia....thought it was funny
(04:06 PM) ann_87: yesterday's high to today's low exactly 100 pts
(04:08 PM) Buffy_04364: amazing isn't it ann
(04:08 PM) Buffy_04364: gives us a nice daily too today
(04:09 PM) Buffy_04364: should be a good week next week baring no surprises this weekend
(04:10 PM) Buffy_04364: oh howard is the bar problem part of the repaint problem?
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(04:13 PM) Ensign Software: what is the bar problem?
(04:14 PM) Buffy_04364: I ended up with two extra bars on a buried 5M
(04:14 PM) Buffy_04364: been a long time since that happened
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(04:17 PM) Buffy_04364: but I have problems here and was going to wait until new version to dig into it