Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
elly_34: don't think so jimbo
BrainStorm: bissed a 2B top by a point on the nas
elly_34: jeez this pyra is amazing
jimbo_320: out the rest for +6.5
Buffy_04364: isn't it though elly
elly_34: someday buffy will u do an ah discussion on how u use it?
ab_18: "This is b/c of window-dressing."   (quote)
BrainStorm: I was impressed when I looked at it but figured if you drew a fine grid like that in more or less any fashion stuff would fall into its channels?
elly_34: the time element though is rather amazing
BrainStorm: Seems like you can draw it anchored anywhere and stuff falls into the lattice
Buffy_04364: yes and that is all calculated the minute you anchor it in conjuction with the indicators
jimbo_320: dow +72
Buffy_04364: like the one I posted yesterday with the arrow
usaf_man: hi room
BrainStorm: certainly intresting will get the book but have a whole backlog of reeding and some of my favourite trade books I like to read 3 or 4 times
BrainStorm: that should be reading ...youd have thought some spelling might have rubbed off hehe
Buffy_04364: as they should be brainman cause you get a little more out of them each time
Buffy_04364: going through the pyra section on the website fills it in pretty good
BrainStorm: yes I have skimmed through
Buffy_04364: time line on pyra again 4m
BrainStorm: Trader vic is next on my list
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BrainStorm: dropped below the previous high on the 5 min does that count as a 2B ?
Buffy_04364: lower high
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Buffy_04364: sets up a 123
Buffy_04364: retro should of tightened stops on the ib
Buffy_04364: I believe
Buffy_04364: or maybe not because not true ib
Buffy_04364: dave?
ppusa: bdx is down 34 but for some reason ran up at close so really only down 12 comparatively
ppusa: ndx
elly_34: buffy is there a way to move pyra without deleteing it and starting over?
Buffy_04364: if you go back to the anchor pt you can drag it
Buffy_04364: I have indicators as a template so that stays and just delete it when I want to move it
elly_34: dang i disappeared it somehow
jimbo_320: should of kept my short....
Daniel X: 1017.25 was good entry
ppusa: yes took a an extra leg but nq giving up fast
jimbo_320: sold 57.5 but covered at 50 :-(
Buffy_04364: missed money better than lost money jimbo
Buffy_04364: :-)
ppusa: sold 57 covered 55.5
Buffy_04364: we can't get it all
ppusa: no whining
BrainStorm: I'd settle for 7.5 everytime
raz_62: did anyone ever say where the retro exit was
jimbo_320: last time we had i run up like this i had 20 up and 20 down :-)
raz_62: 48?
Buffy_04364: do't think so raz
BrainStorm: I'd settle for 20 each way too! in fact I'd double up for that
ppusa: better than being caught short at top of first leg
BrainStorm: haven't got the exits off completely pat yet raz
raz_62: no
Buffy_04364: can ask dave
BrainStorm: was a statemet :-)
raz_62: first poke subsquent bar  ib
raz_62: lots of choices
Buffy_04364: that is why I just guess cause that wasn't a true IB and dave doesn't always use them for exits
Buffy_04364: only the true ones but he will use the ones with even for adds
jimbo_320: 55 up and 55 down, great trading on nqs
BrainStorm: the exits seem a little more fluid from what I recall
raz_62: what wasnt real about it
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Buffy_04364: both ends inside no even end
Buffy_04364: Mike counts both types T doesn't
raz_62: ah
raz_62: thanks
Buffy_04364: u welc
Buffy_04364: beanman has posted some more pyra charts of his
Daniel X: i count both
Daniel X: too
BrainStorm: youre talking about a 1 2 3 here ?
jimbo_320: posted trades
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elly_34: nice eod so far
jimbo_320: dow, es hod
BrainStorm: tick almost hit 1000 again
Buffy_04364: lower high on 3m though
Buffy_04364: lower high up through 9m
BrainStorm: yes % min shows a 1-2-3 top (the way I do them which I think is differnt)
Daniel X:  i'll be back at 4:30 for meeting...PPUSA you better stick around i want to hear your strategy on money management.
elly_34: this is not good buffy
Buffy_04364: what elly
elly_34: every time i reconnec the 5 min is missing data
Buffy_04364: the 123?
elly_34: i should not have to do that each time
Buffy_04364: yes it has no way to update
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Buffy_04364: closing and opening workspace should fix it
elly_34: i got booted once, then had to change isp
elly_34: ok
Buffy_04364: it will then request the data
Buffy_04364: might want to ask Howard if closing and opening best way to fix it
Buffy_04364: I think it is
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BrainStorm: 4:30 chat time ?
Buffy_04364: yes
BrainStorm: good need half an hour to clear my head
elly_34: i will not be able to stay, can someone please save the dialogue?
BrainStorm: was hoping to get tuesdays too if anyone can oblige ?
Buffy_04364: I think tues is posted to website
BrainStorm: ahh OK thanks
Buffy_04364: elly will be doing a lot of talking but will be around tomorrow night and over the weekend also
jimbo_320: is there a chat tonight?
Buffy_04364: if I am in room use the mike to get my attention though as the window is uaually buried
dave_b_quik: ya
elly_34: oh so it will be microphone
elly_34: durn sorry i will miss it
Buffy_04364: for me it will be
jimbo_320: what is it on?
elly_34: well i will leave the window open and see what i get
Buffy_04364: like I said will be around later
Buffy_04364: not tonight as I have bridge game
elly_34: k
elly_34: buffy i had to do what howard showed me
elly_34: even shutting down and re opening did not work
elly_34: fyi
BrainStorm: not sure if audio working for me...anyone using audio here?
BrainStorm: not getting sound except from the anoying pop up when I close pal
jimbo_320: socks still dow 3% on the day
Buffy_04364: we will do sound check brainstorm
Buffy_04364: no one talking now
Buffy_04364: ending in a triangle ick!!
BrainStorm: Sure just never heard anything come through thought I might be going deaf
Buffy_04364: don't blame you but typing all day lets all go back who leave machine and the talking doesn't interrupt your concentration on a trade 
wayne_53: Been away for awhile this afternoon.  Is there a meeting on PalTalk today?
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BrainStorm: yes Wayne money management is the topic I believe
wayne_53: thnx
Buffy_04364: tks brainstorm was busy
Buffy_04364: so we are in a triangle any bets for tomorrow LOL
ppusa: Dan wrote:    i'll be back at 4:30 for meeting...PPUSA you better stick around i want to hear your strategy on money management.  Please tell him I have none and therefore don;t have strategy. 
ppusa: time to play, bye all
dave_b_quik: i bet something's gonna happen tomorrow
BrainStorm: up down or sideways I bet
elly_34: dave, where did retro finally exit?
raz_62: do you know the total for today dave?
elly_34: the ones from the bottom?
jimbo_320: could just be a short covering bounce..
Buffy_04364: could you hear me?
dave_b_quik: looks like retro dude only pulled off 70 points :-(
Buffy_04364: I have been bumped so many times............
raz_62: great
dave_b_quik: shoulda had 100+
jimbo_320: dave, might beat him today...
Buffy_04364: great jimbo!!
jimbo_320: i guess i'll find out when i get my statement
Buffy_04364: did you beat your best day?
dave_b_quik: no, not even close
dave_b_quik: 3/9 retro mighta done better
Buffy_04364: oh knew that for retro dave was asking jimbo
jimbo_320: dunno, trading nq today, $1600 per contract on es is going to be very hard to beat..
raz_62: no buffy
raz_62: my sound is fried
Dá: guess no one can hear me brb
dave_b_quik: anybody talking?
dave_b_quik: anybody have the whole transcript for today?
dave_b_quik: sounds good, raz
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raz_62: cant hear though
raz_62: gotta check it out
Buffy_04364: could you hear me Dave?
BrainStorm: cant hear here
Buffy_04364: looks like a reboot
dave_b_quik: nobody hears me?
BrainStorm: but as I said earlier to buffy havent a clue wether my set up works
Buffy_04364: brb
jimbo_320: y
Buffy_04364: I hear you fine dave
dave_b_quik: OK
BrainStorm: that means my set up screwed :-(
jimbo_320: if retro had of bailed on 60 he'd of made buckets
dave_b_quik: ya, need a rule for spikes
BrainStorm: killed firewall gona re start
dave_b_quik: retro didn't do very well in the morning either
jimbo_320: 0 losers today
BrainStorm: could someone give me another sound check pls ?
dave_b_quik: wow, jimbo, when are you gonna give us a seminar?
dave_b_quik: i was talking...
BrainStorm: grr hate paltalk
raz_62: where did you exit dave and do you not follow the 2b with the subsquent poke bars
jimbo_320: side on the side as much as possible till days like today ..
jimbo_320: then fill up
Buffy_04364: could anyone hear that?
texskeet: y
Buffy_04364: yahoo
Buffy_04364: tks
BrainStorm: something messed my end :-(
texskeet: need more vol.
Buffy_04364: can u hear brainstorm?
texskeet: no
BrainStorm: No but dont wait for me 
Buffy_04364: we have time 
BrainStorm: I'll try the paltalk web help
Buffy_04364: have you done the advanced sound control setting?
jimbo_320: where is gsd, havent seeh here for some time or GT
Buffy_04364: in the first paltalk window you see when loading paltalk, click on file
Buffy_04364: setup
BrainStorm: yes Im there
Buffy_04364: then advanced sound control
Buffy_04364: I have all but the second one checked
Buffy_04364: the last one depends on if you are behind a firewall
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Buffy_04364: are you running zonealarm?
BrainStorm: Yeah but turned it off now (had opened up the ports)
Buffy_04364: if so need to exit change setting to low then come back in
Buffy_04364: then you can move them to med
Buffy_04364: most of the time
BrainStorm: have it off altogether now
jimbo_320: what is the chat on today?
Buffy_04364: the importance of money manaement
Buffy_04364: most probably old hat to you jimbo
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jimbo_320: i have a bit more leeway since last month LOL...
Buffy_04364: just the basics otherwise could talk for days
Buffy_04364: brainstorm changing zonealarm when I had it while still in paltalk did not fix it for me
jimbo_320: at 4.30?
Buffy_04364: yes
Buffy_04364: trying to help the ones who can't hear
jimbo_320: ok thanks, i stick around a bit but probably shoot off have a great chat,thanks
BrainStorm: I'll quickly restart Pal
BrainStorm: Hm,mm adds work well enough please continue 
cafe: Hi, Gunner !!
hawki: hi all.just posted 5m chart overlayed with previous 15m box. 
raz_62: hey got sound
raz_62: cool
larrybf: these guys teach much better
raz_62: was zonealarm
cafe: lol
jimbo_320: it works
(04:31 PM) jimbo_320: thats ok gunner
(04:31 PM) dave_b_quik: gunner i keep getting kicked out of gunners targets
(04:31 PM) jimbo_320: is it still the same?
(04:32 PM) dave_b_quik: i'm on win2k
(04:32 PM) dave_b_quik: ok
(04:32 PM) jimbo_320: gunner that day was pretty awful trading so i think i got fed up and did some decorating
(04:34 PM) wayne_53: Let's rumble
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(04:36 PM) dave_b_quik: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/money_management/
(04:37 PM) dave_b_quik: wow!
(04:38 PM) dave_b_quik: i wonder what it would be if we could do 75% with the small losses...
(04:40 PM) laniermasters: I got disconnected, which chart are we one?
(04:41 PM) laniermasters: thx
(04:44 PM) jimbo_320: when you're thinking that look at your original entry and think 'is this trade reason i entered 4 still valid or not, if not get out'
(04:45 PM) dave_b_quik: good advice
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(04:47 PM) Fredkzk: hi everybody
(04:47 PM) Fredkzk: i swap my 32 sq meters room in paris with a room in L.A 
(04:49 PM) dave_b_quik: would you settle for a room in buffalo, fred?
(04:50 PM) Daniel X: sorry im late was watching Oprah
(04:52 PM) jimbo_320: strange those moves were start of day and end of day? a pattern there?
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(04:55 PM) Daniel X: revenge trading i call it
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(04:56 PM) rodman_3: it really depends on percent winners, if 60% winners then 1 to 1 risk reward leaves equity increasing on 20% of trades, 2 to 1 results in equity increasing on 40% of trades etc
(04:59 PM) jimbo_320: is your stop to tight ? million dollar question, starting trading it is more important to avoid drawdown, you WILL get more losers with tight stops, but once you get a big winner, it will give u more leeway to set a looser stop.
(05:00 PM) larrybf: Buffy-shouldnt these questions ALL be answered statistically/mathematically?
(05:00 PM) ab_18: tell us some war stories about risk
(05:01 PM) dave_b_quik: like my first Nasdaq trade when i got into the big contract thinking i was in the mini?
(05:01 PM) rodman_3: you should know the statistics so that you can control your emotions
(05:01 PM) Tom_B: Can we discuss multiple positions, & scaling out
(05:02 PM) Tom_B: wud like to hear wht Jimbo does, also
(05:02 PM) Daniel X: will be slow 
(05:02 PM) Daniel X: typing
(05:02 PM) larrybf: Buffy-in my previous business life i uilt a relatively successful business using the law of averages in sales. Consistent apllication will override all negatives
(05:02 PM) larrybf: uilt=built
(05:02 PM) Daniel X: 1rst off how many retro entries yeild  points from the get go?
(05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: many of them
(05:03 PM) Daniel X: ?
(05:03 PM) Daniel X: can someone give me a %
(05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: true larry please comment on it when daniel is through
(05:03 PM) Daniel X: 75%
(05:03 PM) sunny_850: 85
(05:03 PM) Daniel X: thats wahy im asking 
(05:04 PM) Daniel X: wnat to see waht the room thinks
(05:04 PM) larrybf: we finally disagree on something.oh well thats what discussion is for
(05:04 PM) Daniel X: i feel much higher
(05:04 PM) Daniel X: my style i enter2 contracts cut on hesitation hold retro for the rset
(05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: larry - not sayng we disagreee but would like to understand better what you are saying and expand upon it
(05:05 PM) Daniel X: 2 on 1 out on a scalp the other stays on retro rules
(05:05 PM) larrybf: Buffy i got to go buy a mike. i have no mike and as you know by now i type like a 5 year old
(05:05 PM) Daniel X: always
(05:05 PM) Daniel X: always
(05:05 PM) Daniel X: always
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(05:05 PM) Daniel X: +2
(05:05 PM) Daniel X: +3
(05:05 PM) Daniel X:  what ever
(05:05 PM) laniermasters: Daniel, are you using a mic?
(05:06 PM) Daniel X: that way if my 5 point gets hit im still ahead
(05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: they are real cheap larry - usually 5-10 bucks
(05:06 PM) Daniel X: of sittong like an idiot holding a 15 min break a lod
(05:06 PM) Tom_B: Daniel , 2 pts initial target on unit 1 ?
(05:06 PM) larrybf: go to radio shack buffy
(05:06 PM) larrybf: ???
(05:06 PM) Daniel X: not points hesitation
(05:06 PM) raz_62: walmart
(05:07 PM) Tom_B: k
(05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: oh they are more there
(05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: just the simple heaset mike
(05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: hmmm
(05:07 PM) larrybf: thanks raz
(05:07 PM) raz_62: labtech 15bucks
(05:07 PM) Tom_B: how abt stops Daniel ?
(05:07 PM) Daniel X: u have to look at Retro entries and see what gets hit first
(05:07 PM) larrybf: labtech.com?
(05:07 PM) jody_15: Labtec $15...me too ...WalMart
(05:07 PM) Tom_B: trailing
(05:07 PM) Daniel X: 3 point profit or 5 point sto[p?
(05:07 PM) Daniel X: atop?
(05:07 PM) Tom_B: , ok
(05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: labtech is what walmart sells I think larry
(05:08 PM) Tom_B: do u go to b/e
(05:08 PM) larrybf: ok thanks
(05:08 PM) Daniel X: Retro gives some profit before the loss almost every time
(05:08 PM) Daniel X: 15/9/5/1
(05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: tks
(05:09 PM) Daniel X: yes
(05:09 PM) Daniel X: like to day up 1137.50
(05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: and then the original contract has stops on the 5M like retro right?
(05:09 PM) Daniel X: trading 2 contracts on ES cuting 1 over 1 point
(05:10 PM) Daniel X: thats right Buffy
(05:10 PM) Buffy_04364: you never lose the whole 5pts on a retro stop then
(05:10 PM) Daniel X: very rarely
(05:10 PM) wayne_53: Daniel.....Are retro trades coming off a 15m/5m setup or 9m/3m or others
(05:10 PM) Daniel X: right
(05:10 PM) Daniel X: never
(05:11 PM) laniermasters: which works best trading ES?
(05:11 PM) Daniel X: both depends on volume and how many Retro enties get stopped at a loss
(05:11 PM) laniermasters: ok
(05:12 PM) Buffy_04364: do you ever add contracts like retro daniel
(05:12 PM) Daniel X: ES 9/6/1
(05:12 PM) Daniel X: 9/5/1 sorry
(05:13 PM) Daniel X: no that often Buffy
(05:13 PM) Buffy_04364: tks
(05:13 PM) larrybf: dan can retro rules be applied to a 3/1 minute combo?
(05:13 PM) laniermasters: 9 for entry, 5 for retro stop, and 1 for hestittion exit on first contract, right?
(05:13 PM) Daniel X: thats right Lanier
(05:13 PM) laniermasters: thx
(05:13 PM) Daniel X: larry yes
(05:14 PM) Daniel X: but i find them too close 
(05:14 PM) Daniel X: today i took 6 trades
(05:14 PM) Daniel X: missed afew
(05:14 PM) wayne_53: what do you consider hesitaton on the 1......taking out the low of a previous bar or what
(05:14 PM) Daniel X:  14.50 points on the holder
(05:14 PM) Daniel X: 8.25 points on the scalper
(05:14 PM) larrybf: yes but i think a smaller time frame handles congestion better, doesnt it?
(05:15 PM) Daniel X: hesistatation on the 1 min looks like a reversal
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(05:16 PM) Daniel X: Wayne price action and volume tells me if we're going to move or not
(05:16 PM) Daniel X: up on low volume down on high vol etc etc
(05:17 PM) Daniel X: yes 
(05:17 PM) wayne_53: define low and high vol
(05:17 PM) laniermasters: 14.5 pts. seems like a lot to indicate hesitation 
(05:17 PM) Daniel X: the hardest trade for me is the coming out of lunch trdae
(05:18 PM) Daniel X: ?
(05:18 PM) Daniel X: lost u there lanier
(05:18 PM) laniermasters: 14.5 x $20 (NQ) or x $50 (ES)
(05:18 PM) Daniel X: combined trades i'm talking
(05:18 PM) Daniel X: all ES 
(05:19 PM) Daniel X: 6 trades
(05:19 PM) Daniel X: 1 loss
(05:19 PM) Daniel X: of a point
(05:19 PM) Daniel X: WAYNE declining incresaing volume on 5/1 minute
(05:19 PM) wayne_53: ok
(05:19 PM) Daniel X: any other questions
(05:19 PM) laniermasters: you're talking about money you made -I thought you were answering a question about hesitation.  makes more sense.
(05:20 PM) Daniel X: well yes i cut 1 contract on hesitation
(05:20 PM) larrybf: dan- why do you switch between the es and nq contracts?
(05:20 PM) Daniel X: ES doesn't move as much as NQ
(05:21 PM) Daniel X: NQ been very choppy lately
(05:21 PM) larrybf: true true
(05:21 PM) Daniel X: even though the trade was a good one u got stopped out
(05:22 PM) Buffy_04364: anyone have any other thoughts on Money management or any questions?
(05:22 PM) Daniel X: ES has less scalpers and signals follow through seem like less fakes
(05:22 PM) Tom_B: add on contracts
(05:22 PM) Tom_B: on 5m retro style... 
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(05:23 PM) Daniel X: Thing is about the adds is very few days a present them selves where the trend is strong enough
(05:23 PM) Tom_B: anyone using any risk mgmt  parameters before they add ?
(05:24 PM) larrybf: thank you dan- those headfakes realy are a problem. maybe i should look at the es. never even watched it a full day
(05:24 PM) laniermasters: A different questions, does anyone have an opinion about what time of day is most likely to result in a profitable retro trade?
(05:24 PM) wayne_53: retro does pretty good on the ES
(05:25 PM) Daniel X: been watching Jimbo fo 2 weeks while we were getting stopped he was doing well
(05:25 PM) Buffy_04364: I am tom stop must always be profitable
(05:25 PM) rodman_3: first one and half and last one and half hours
(05:25 PM) Tom_B: so prev trade must not be at risk.. ?
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(05:25 PM) Buffy_04364: that is right
(05:25 PM) Tom_B: k, tnx
(05:25 PM) laniermasters: thanks Rod
(05:26 PM) Buffy_04364: and I also put its stop where retro has his first one
(05:26 PM) Buffy_04364: if retro wrong why take an added loss on add
(05:26 PM) Tom_B: ?
(05:26 PM) Daniel X: Lanier all i can say is i stay out from 11:30 to roughly 13:30
(05:26 PM) Buffy_04364: I think retro uses the 5pt initial stop on add
(05:26 PM) laniermasters: thanks, i wish I had today
(05:26 PM) Tom_B: y
(05:26 PM) Tom_B: , o
(05:26 PM) Buffy_04364: where as I have both at retro stop
(05:26 PM) Tom_B: k
(05:27 PM) Tom_B: retro TS vs initial stp
(05:29 PM) pechin: anyone know how to pay for paltalk, I can not get there
(05:29 PM) wayne_53: vg
(05:29 PM) Daniel X: lanier  u have to compare Retro's points during chop lunch versus staying out completely and determine if you want to work that hard for scalps which is what Retro ussuall gets
(05:29 PM) laniermasters: Thanks Buffy, Daniel, Dave!
(05:29 PM) Daniel X: thnx
(05:30 PM) laniermasters: Yes, I'll start staying out at lunch.
(05:30 PM) Orprepus: say again
(05:30 PM) Tom_B: where is that  chart ?
(05:30 PM) Tom_B: tnx
(05:30 PM) ann_87: Daniel, what hours do you not trade retro?
(05:31 PM) Daniel X: for all those having discipline problems sticking to Retro i have a way to keep you on track once you can identify the entries and really beleive Retro works
(05:31 PM) Daniel X: not hours ANN days
(05:31 PM) Daniel X: chop days i go to Scalptro
(05:32 PM) ann_87: Daniel do you trade it during lunch?
(05:32 PM) Daniel X: i rarely trade lunch
(05:33 PM) wayne_53: yeah let's hear it Daniel
(05:33 PM) Daniel X: open an account  with a little $
(05:33 PM) Daniel X: say the margin for the NQ
(05:33 PM) Daniel X: mine is 1400
(05:33 PM) Daniel X:  start with 2000
(05:34 PM) Daniel X: it will keep you from taking syupid trades
(05:35 PM) Orprepus: stupid is as stupid does
(05:35 PM) Daniel X:  if you fall below the margin
(05:35 PM) mrz_1: Daniel, please share your method for determining the transition from retro-mode to scalp-mode.
(05:35 PM) Daniel X: Retro gets chopped 2 x its' most likely chop
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(05:35 PM) mrz_1: OK, thanks.
(05:36 PM) wayne_53: then you go to a 5m/1m?
(05:36 PM) Daniel X: yes
(05:36 PM) Tom_B: es or nq
(05:36 PM) Daniel X: either
(05:37 PM) wayne_53: but in chop it's almost like you have to sell when it says buy and vice versa
(05:37 PM) Daniel X: I use NQ as a barometer when trading ES
(05:38 PM) laniermasters: also dj
(05:38 PM) Daniel X: and the DOW when trading NQ
(05:39 PM) mrz_1: Do scalping mode trades have point targets, like 75% of previous pivot range? Or do you try to trail the stop tightly?
(05:39 PM) Daniel X: chop still needs a minimum range to trade 
(05:39 PM) Daniel X: no trail in scalps
(05:39 PM) Daniel X: market
(05:40 PM) Daniel X: u have to remember if ur scalping ur scalping
(05:41 PM) Daniel X: don't worry about Buffy getting 20 points when you got 5 on a scalp!
(05:41 PM) Daniel X: you can only trade in ur comfort zone
(05:41 PM) Daniel X: repeat that BUF
(05:42 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(05:43 PM) Daniel X: ffear of loss usualy indicates that you're under funded
(05:43 PM) Daniel X: true
(05:44 PM) Daniel X: need to develop beleif system
(05:45 PM) Daniel X: if u beleive that what you know works you have  to take the trades and let the averages take over
(05:45 PM) Orprepus: right
(05:46 PM) Orprepus: more a method tha system
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(05:46 PM) Daniel X: not the same as not being afraid  to trade..confident in what u see and if you're interpretation of tit is correct
(05:46 PM) Orprepus: dan-x has method - go from retro to scalptro when needs to adapts to amrket
(05:46 PM) Daniel X: until ur not sure ...just ask other traders here
(05:47 PM) Daniel X: until u r sure i meant ..sorry
(05:47 PM) Orprepus: the best imho
(05:47 PM) Orprepus: and we also get howard everynow and than
(05:47 PM) Daniel X: i second that
(05:48 PM) Orprepus: getting better tools that allow you to adapt - like pp
(05:49 PM) Orprepus: hopefully working on getting ASI in studies
(05:49 PM) Daniel X: the hardest trade is when a  chop day turns into a mini trend and breaks out
(05:49 PM) ann_87: Dan what did you use today to know that there were 5000 bid @ 22 in NQ?
(05:50 PM) Daniel X: Retro gets burned by taking the losses but is always in the runners
(05:50 PM) Daniel X: lol
(05:50 PM) Daniel X: exactly
(05:51 PM) larrybf: dAN AND BUFFY-how do you decide which time frame to make you primary chart?
(05:51 PM) larrybf: yeah
(05:51 PM) Daniel X: ANN  it was a joke that i was putting the order in to make NQ move up and spike me to get it moving
(05:51 PM) larrybf: smootth?? explain
(05:52 PM) Daniel X: me too wide snap back
(05:52 PM) larrybf: so the 15min is HUGE then
(05:52 PM) Daniel X: no point wise
(05:52 PM) laniermasters: you mean bars close to same height?
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(05:53 PM) laniermasters: thanks, that's something very new to me, sounds like a good idea.
(05:53 PM) larrybf: what size range bars do you like?
(05:54 PM) Daniel X: in those situations which i don't recommend..when those scary huge break outs occur and i'm not in..i look for volume and go market mostly
(05:54 PM) Daniel X: lol
(05:54 PM) Daniel X: yes
(05:55 PM) larrybf: dan do you trade 8:30 news?
(05:55 PM) Daniel X: bt the time i do that i feel i'll miss too much of a potential scalp!
(05:55 PM) Daniel X: lol
(05:55 PM) larrybf: those breakouts are fast
(05:55 PM) laniermasters: Also still use 15m bars, shorter one for more exact timing?
(05:55 PM) Daniel X: no not a news trader
(05:55 PM) Daniel X: i hate spikes
(05:55 PM) Daniel X: yes
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(05:56 PM) Daniel X: i wait 5 mins after the news to see what they really want to do 
(05:57 PM) Daniel X: ouch
(05:57 PM) Daniel X: oh
(05:57 PM) Daniel X: phew!
(05:57 PM) Daniel X: ORP any thing to add?
(05:58 PM) Daniel X: take care Buffy
(05:58 PM) larrybf: thanks buffy
(05:58 PM) Tom_B: Tnx
(05:58 PM) Orprepus: thanks buffy
(05:58 PM) laniermasters: Thanks very much.
(05:58 PM) scorec: where can i get  some mor info about retro?
(05:59 PM) Orprepus: www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com
(05:59 PM) Tom_B: www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com
(05:59 PM) scorec: thanks
(05:59 PM) Daniel X: ORP ur the LOD/HOD trader aren't you?
(05:59 PM) Orprepus: not always
(06:00 PM) Orprepus: trend days yes chop no
(06:00 PM) sunny_850: dan, what is the biggest stop you will do on es, 5 pts
(06:01 PM) Daniel X: no no no ES 2 points
(06:01 PM) sunny_850: okay thks
(06:02 PM) Daniel X: ORP what's your entry exit strategy/
(06:02 PM) Daniel X: ?
(06:02 PM) Orprepus: enter off 2m
(06:02 PM) Daniel X: all entries?
(06:02 PM) Orprepus: stop and exit set off 4m
(06:02 PM) Orprepus: yes
(06:02 PM) Orprepus: look for explosion in charts
(06:03 PM) Daniel X: how wide of a stop?
(06:03 PM) Orprepus: want tosee 2m move into 4m  4m inot 16m and so
(06:03 PM) Orprepus: 3.5pt in es
(06:03 PM) Daniel X: strict exits or feel and volume
(06:03 PM) Daniel X: ?
(06:04 PM) Orprepus: give trade 20m to work before moving stop in trend day
(06:04 PM) Daniel X: 20 minutes!!??
(06:04 PM) Orprepus: in chop after 5m if not moving will pull trigger on market order
(06:04 PM) Daniel X: wow
(06:04 PM) Orprepus: yes 20m
(06:04 PM) Orprepus: trust in trade
(06:05 PM) Orprepus: you said very comfortable with method have confidence
(06:06 PM) Daniel X: so you're willing to give up points by leaving stop at original place  for 20 mins ?
(06:06 PM) Orprepus: yes
(06:06 PM) Daniel X: roughly
(06:06 PM) Daniel X: got to try that
(06:06 PM) Orprepus: but rarely do
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(06:06 PM) Orprepus: know chop and trend days 
(06:06 PM) Daniel X: in the first 15 mins i guess
(06:07 PM) Orprepus: you got it
(06:07 PM) Daniel X: or 1/2 hr?
(06:07 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(06:07 PM) Orprepus: :-)
(06:07 PM) Daniel X: u don't do lunch do you?
(06:07 PM) Orprepus: if in trade yes
(06:07 PM) Orprepus: will not enter trade during lunch
(06:07 PM) Daniel X: prelunch entry yes but lunch entry?
(06:08 PM) Orprepus: no way
(06:08 PM) Daniel X: ah ok u type faster
(06:08 PM) Daniel X: lol
(06:08 PM) Daniel X: overnights?
(06:09 PM) Orprepus: never
(06:09 PM) Orprepus: am before open sometimes
(06:09 PM) Daniel X: how close to open is 1rst entry?
(06:09 PM) Orprepus: depends some times it is the open
(06:09 PM) Daniel X: 9:30?
(06:10 PM) Orprepus: within 30m of open will take trad
(06:11 PM) Daniel X: oso as soon as market settles and 4/2 min give u the signal
(06:11 PM) Orprepus: enough vol usually
(06:11 PM) Orprepus: that matchs trend
(06:12 PM) Orprepus: only trend trade before open
(06:12 PM) Daniel X: previous days trend u mean?
(06:12 PM) Daniel X: or the developing one?
(06:12 PM) Orprepus: large tf
(06:12 PM) Daniel X: gotcha
(06:12 PM) Orprepus: what is trend of market
(06:13 PM) Orprepus: down - safe to take trade with trend
(06:13 PM) Daniel X: been looking at the 30 and 60 min this week to try and get an earlier entry
(06:13 PM) Daniel X: but open trade needs a good wide stop
(06:13 PM) Daniel X: imo
(06:14 PM) Orprepus: use weekly, daily, 180m, 120m and 60M for trend
(06:14 PM) Daniel X: so u trade naked on 1rst trade initailly?
(06:14 PM) Daniel X: stopless
(06:14 PM) Orprepus: no always have stop
(06:14 PM) Daniel X: as trend emerges
(06:15 PM) Daniel X: initial open ur stops has to be wide no?
(06:15 PM) Daniel X: 20 points
(06:15 PM) Orprepus: no always use 3.5pts
(06:15 PM) Daniel X: or so you'll re enter in trand direction  without hesitating?
(06:16 PM) Daniel X: 3.5 on ES ..what of NQ?
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(06:17 PM) Orprepus: will not always re-enter -wait for clearer signal
(06:17 PM) Daniel X: i have no sound but some spoke
(06:17 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(06:17 PM) Orprepus: nq 7pts stop
(06:17 PM) Orprepus: didn't hear anyone and i have sound - could be ctrl key hit
(06:18 PM) Daniel X: and have u compared ur style to Retro
(06:18 PM) Daniel X: ?
(06:18 PM) Orprepus: yes we are opposite
(06:18 PM) Orprepus: I enter lower tf  and exit higher
(06:19 PM) Daniel X: point wise  i meant
(06:19 PM) Daniel X: roughly the same?
(06:19 PM) Orprepus: not really
(06:20 PM) Orprepus: I make money in chop
(06:20 PM) Daniel X: i'm 35 % under but up 35 % on returns
(06:20 PM) Orprepus: I also tend to hold the trade longer in a trend
(06:21 PM) Daniel X: by not trading chop and not taking trade 1
(06:21 PM) Daniel X: yes with a wider stop
(06:21 PM) Daniel X: and no inside bar rule
(06:21 PM) Orprepus: right trailing stop usually wider
(06:21 PM) Orprepus: right
(06:22 PM) Daniel X: scale out?
(06:22 PM) Orprepus: no
(06:22 PM) Daniel X: all or nothing/
(06:22 PM) Daniel X: ?
(06:22 PM) Orprepus: right
(06:23 PM) Orprepus: in trend day more contracts
(06:23 PM) Orprepus: chop few
(06:23 PM) Daniel X: not even a protective extra contract?
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(06:23 PM) Daniel X: scaling out/
(06:23 PM) Daniel X: ?
(06:23 PM) Orprepus: no too much to manage - I trust the trade and method
(06:23 PM) Orprepus: kiss
(06:24 PM) Daniel X: i've never tried limit on 5 contracts only market in and out but the fills are not that bad
(06:25 PM) Orprepus: get pretty good fills
(06:25 PM) Daniel X: limit five do u get all filled/
(06:25 PM) Daniel X: ?
(06:25 PM) Orprepus: 5-10 not to big to handled by system
(06:25 PM) Orprepus: usually get fill on all 10
(06:25 PM) Daniel X: same price?
(06:26 PM) Orprepus: yes
(06:26 PM) Daniel X: hhhmmmm
(06:26 PM) Orprepus: only on trend days
(06:26 PM) Daniel X: otherwise?
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(06:27 PM) Daniel X: slippage or no fill?
(06:27 PM) Orprepus: partial fill
(06:27 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(06:27 PM) Orprepus: 10 in 6 filled 
(06:27 PM) Daniel X: and u take it or try for the rest
(06:27 PM) Daniel X: i mean go with those
(06:27 PM) Orprepus: usually seed it will come back and get them
(06:28 PM) Orprepus: seed= see if
(06:28 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(06:28 PM) Orprepus: or cancel the remainer and go with it
(06:28 PM) Daniel X: you like the retarce fills
(06:28 PM) Daniel X: ok thats what i wanted to know   the cancelations
(06:28 PM) Orprepus: no not really
(06:29 PM) ann_87: Daniel, sorry to interrupt, when you said you trade 1/5/9 is that on es only or also nq?
(06:29 PM) Daniel X: how long u been trading futures?
(06:30 PM) Daniel X: both ANN but add 15 on NQ
(06:30 PM) Daniel X: theres onlt one method that works in all markets..scalpinging
(06:30 PM) Daniel X: opps
(06:30 PM) ann_87: when you trade 2 contracts... and you exit the 1 contract on a little stalling , di you say yu usually can get a few nq pts or es pts?
(06:31 PM) Daniel X: bad typing
(06:31 PM) Daniel X: both ANN
(06:31 PM) Daniel X: es and nq
(06:31 PM) ann_87: so on the es u usually don't trade the 15 min?
(06:31 PM) ann_87: just the 9?
(06:31 PM) Daniel X: rarely
(06:31 PM) ann_87: and nq the 15 right?
(06:31 PM) Daniel X: dyes
(06:31 PM) Daniel X: yes
(06:32 PM) ann_87: so on es  you trade 2 off the 9 min and exit 1 always after a pt?
(06:32 PM) Daniel X: using 9 on NQ can get u in early 
(06:32 PM) ann_87: and keep the 2 pt stop on the balance
(06:33 PM) Daniel X: yes roughly ..as i watch volume and NQ for leaderchip
(06:33 PM) Orprepus: thats all for me today - yall have a good evening or night depending where you are
(06:33 PM) ann_87: do you ever just run the 2?
(06:33 PM) Daniel X: if i see 2 points on es i'll move the stop to pay the broker at least
(06:33 PM) Daniel X: G nite ORP thanx
(06:33 PM) ann_87: on both?
(06:34 PM) ann_87: bye orprepus hope i did not interrupt
(06:34 PM) jody_15: Has anyone ever heard of the"Value Area"
(06:34 PM) Daniel X: i have to cut 1 away to keep losses as low as possible
(06:35 PM) ann_87: got ya
(06:35 PM) ann_87: thanks daniel
(06:35 PM) Daniel X: or when i trade 3 cut 1..4 cut 2 etc etc
(06:35 PM) ann_87: that was funny i truly thought you could see bid at 22 5000
(06:35 PM) ann_87: lol
(06:35 PM) Daniel X: lol
(06:36 PM) ann_87: then when we shot up... i thought i need the data daniel has 
(06:36 PM) ann_87: lol
(06:36 PM) Daniel X: lol
(06:36 PM) ann_87: 23.50 was the 1 2 3 pivot
(06:36 PM) Daniel X: some must haveit!
(06:36 PM) ann_87: so it all worked well
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(06:37 PM) ann_87: sometime like borsillino site i guess or if you pay for level 2 
(06:37 PM) ann_87: no clue
(06:37 PM) ann_87: funny orprepus left but still has his hand up lol
(06:37 PM) Daniel X: granted i would of made more $ holding 2 contracts all the way but....
(06:38 PM) ann_87: well you could have just added then on pull backs once profitalble
(06:38 PM) Daniel X: but if it turned on me..ouch
(06:38 PM) ann_87: when was the entry that turned on you?
(06:39 PM) ann_87: i guess you were trading es today?
(06:39 PM) Daniel X: es 1001.75 sell
(06:39 PM) Daniel X: had 1 point max
(06:40 PM) ann_87: sell what time?
(06:40 PM) Daniel X: i cut 1 contract @ +.750 and the other - 1 market
(06:40 PM) Daniel X: biggest loser on the day
(06:40 PM) Daniel X: only loser
(06:40 PM) ann_87: great!
(06:41 PM) ann_87: i hear the rally was portfolio balancing
(06:41 PM) ann_87: wish they'd balance more often
(06:41 PM) Daniel X: yes funds move it that way
(06:41 PM) Daniel X: eratic
(06:42 PM) Daniel X: institutions grind it up
(06:42 PM) Daniel X: i hat those grinds
(06:42 PM) Daniel X: hate
(06:42 PM) ann_87: up was not too grinding today
(06:43 PM) ann_87: down in nq was grinding yesterday
(06:43 PM) Daniel X: hate grinds period
(06:43 PM) ann_87: so you did not like the afternoon?
(06:43 PM) ann_87: i was trading nq and it was a train!
(06:43 PM) Daniel X: yestreday we fell an average of 10 points an hour.....yuck
(06:44 PM) ann_87: yea, yesterday was ugly
(06:44 PM) Daniel X: kids waiting to me to join them for dinner
(06:44 PM) ann_87: k daniel
(06:44 PM) ann_87: thanks for the info
(06:44 PM) Daniel X: have a great evening
(06:44 PM) ann_87: you too
(06:45 PM) Daniel X: wlcm
(06:45 PM) Daniel X: bye everyone see u tommorrow!
(06:45 PM) sunny_850: thanks dan
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(06:51 PM) x21r: cu all
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