Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni. Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk. ppusa: bye jack dave_b_quick: jackmehoff_7 has been bounced from the group ppusa: what took ya so long sunny_850: sounds like afgan dave_b_quick: i had to log off and log on again Orprepus: thanks dave Paltalk: Britney,Dido,Outkast,+ MORE! 12 CDs Free + s&h. CLICK HERE NOW FOR 12 FREE CD's! Orprepus: boot sunny_850: thanks dave dave_b_quick: who's next? make my day... ppusa: haha elly_34: lol sunny_850: for a minute thought I was speaking in tongues ppusa: bye all, as usual been fun skyprince_1: bye pp Buffy_04364: well, can see I didn't miss much at the end at all dave_b_quick: Hey all dave_b_quick: i got kicked out, had to switch computers dave_b_quick: still can't get in from the other one dave_b_quick: paltalk is having problems i guess Ensign Software: need a brainstorm again. We are adding a check box to the Chart Panel to set the mode for chart scrolling to either preserve and use the studies currently on the chart window, or allow the chart's pesonal study list to be loaded in the scroll. Asking for help in picking an appropriate name for this checkbox. Any suggestions? Paltalk: Get 4 DVDs for 49¢ each plus s&h. CLICK HERE NOW FOR 4 DVD's @ 49 ¢ EACH! Buffy_04364: hi Howard Ensign Software: hi dave, I just entered and room seems dead. I asked a ? and got no reply Ensign Software: hi buffy, did you get my question in here just now? ice_50: how did retro do today Buffy_04364: ? Ensign Software: need a brainstorm again. We are adding a check box to the Chart Panel to set the mode for chart scrolling to either preserve and use the studies currently on the chart window, or allow the chart's pesonal study list to be loaded in the scroll. Asking for help in picking an appropriate name for this checkbox. Any suggestions? Buffy_04364: to flip between workspace studies and chart personal studies dave_b_quick: ya, i'm still not able to access the room from my main computer at all Paltalk: Click banners to visit our sponsors. sunny_850: how about auto scroll Buffy_04364: the ? appeared after I said hi to you howard Buffy_04364: paltalk has problems ice_50: yes here Ensign Software: yes i heard sunny_850: y laniermasters: YES dave_b_quick: i didn't hear howard Buffy_04364: how about either or buttons Ensign Software: i did not speak, I used CTRL key to cut and paste my question again Buffy_04364: one labeled chart personal study Buffy_04364: IMO Buffy_04364: then you know what you are checking with no cofusion aboutthe end Buffy_04364: other labeled workspace studies Buffy_04364: don't even know if possible howard Buffy_04364: gee are my replies showing up? ice_50: yes buffy can see them Buffy_04364: tks Ensign Software: how about 'Scroll Studies' ? Buffy_04364: Hi GT how is it going? Gorillatrader: hello everbody Buffy_04364: is the user going to know what it is on at the present to know what they are flipping to Buffy_04364: yes laniermasters: hi, GT Buffy_04364: dave is Gorillatrader: het lanier kber: the chat is now, right? Gorillatrader: dave is late...lol Buffy_04364: LOL Buffy_04364: he couldn't access paltalk from his main computer last I knew Ensign Software: idea is when checked, the current chart image with its properties and studies that is in the symbol color group just continues and does not change. only symbol changes kber: yeah, Paltalk servers are spotty Buffy_04364: that works howard as long as it is easy to tell what you have it set on already just like all your other buttons skyprince_1: Sounds good....both were challenging dave_b_quick: how many are here for the retrotrader chat? Buffy_04364: predominant studies works too Buffy_04364: or controling studies laniermasters: I am here for retro John 4242: here Gorillatrader: me kber: tho I have a fast DSL connection, speech from this room is coming thru at like one-tenth speed. Anyone know how to fix it? Tom_B: retry ice_50: for chat kber: I'm here for the chat, Dave GGriz: yo skyprince_1: My sound is okay Buffy_04364: has someone talked? Orprepus: sound test please dave_b_quick: i think it's an internet problem or paltalk problem, kber Buffy_04364: if so I need to go out and come back in Buffy_04364: sound check please ice_50: sound okay here ice_50: yes Buffy_04364: haven't heard a thing at all today in here John 4242: yes Tom_B: y GGriz: y skyprince_1: y Buffy_04364: ok so need to leave and come back laniermasters: okay here Orprepus: got ya Buffy_04364: brb kber: just growling sounds here Gorillatrader: ok Orprepus: had t o exit paltalk competely and log back to get sound skyprince_1: Technology....love/hate relationship... Tom_B: kber, try exiting ptalk & come bk in dave_b_quick: sometimes restarting paltalk works Buffy_04364: sound check again please Buffy_04364: got it John 4242: y skyprince_1: y Buffy_04364: tks Gorillatrader: go, dave Tom_B: dave today wud be good, it's current & was choppy, etc Orprepus: anyone going to type ice_50: what chart should we pull up kber: done that already before, no dice skyprince_1: Let's light this candle! Paltalk: Credit report online. Always private, always secure, get yours FREE from ConsumerInfo.Com! CLICK HERE NOW FOR YOUR FREE CREDIT REPORT! Orprepus: what was results for day Tom_B: can we go thru today, trade by trade...esp chop time ice_50: can we talk about entries and exits John 4242: both! :-) skyprince_1: Yeah....review trades and exits particularly...pls Tom_B: also, add trades..stop rules ice_50: yes Buffy_04364: great you have posted todays! skyprince_1: y John 4242: yes Buffy_04364: now we will all be looking at same chart Buffy_04364: thanks Dave kber: Dave, hate to ask you to type, but re-entering did not solve sound problem ice_50: yes Buffy_04364: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/Retro-Trader/2001-09-25.gif Buffy_04364: retro always takes trade off first 15M bar right dave_b_quick: trade 1, 15m breakout, stopped out dave_b_quick: -5 Buffy_04364: did you exit paltalk totally or just the room? Buffy_04364: I have to exit totally GGriz: did you check the vol and mute controls Buffy? kber: okay, will try that Buffy_04364: I can hear ok Buffy_04364: kber can't skyprince_1: I stayed out during report.... Buffy_04364: but exited completely out of paltalk ice_50: question Buffy_04364: not just room Buffy_04364: ditto here skyprince Tom_B: prev is bettr (04:48 PM) Buffy_04364: dave is there any exception to taking the bo of the first bar (04:48 PM) Buffy_04364: ? (04:48 PM) Buffy_04364: ice has a question also (04:49 PM) Buffy_04364: dave please answer my ? (04:49 PM) ice_50: dave would you still stay in the trade, if the second bar comes below the entry (04:50 PM) QSuzy: dave.....are you looking only at regular trading hours or do you collect earlier data? (04:50 PM) Buffy_04364: on 5m right? (04:50 PM) Buffy_04364: the 20EMA (04:50 PM) ice_50: no on hte 15 min (04:51 PM) ice_50: okay (04:51 PM) John 4242: Just for the 1st trade, right? (04:51 PM) ice_50: yes (04:51 PM) ice_50: if not stopped out (04:51 PM) kber: unbelievable, closed and restarted Paltalk, their audio check ran fine, then just slurred growls here (04:52 PM) ice_50: happend a few times towards the end today (04:52 PM) ice_50: okay (04:52 PM) ice_50: thanks (04:52 PM) QSuzy: Rules say trend defined by highs and lows on 5min.....have you changed definition of trend to close above 20EMA on 5 min? (04:52 PM) Buffy_04364: kber have you done the file/setup/advanced sound control (04:53 PM) QSuzy: ok.. Paltalk: Get 12 FREE CDs! Click for Details, CLICK HERE NOW FOR 12 FREE CD's! (04:53 PM) Buffy_04364: I have all checked in there but the second one (04:53 PM) sunny_850: kber try unchecking reduce to 8 bit sound (04:53 PM) kber: yes, Buffy (04:53 PM) Buffy_04364: need to then exit completely and come back in (04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: must be paltalk then (04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: sorry (04:54 PM) elly_34: i do not see which 15 min bar please? (04:54 PM) John 4242: y (04:54 PM) skyprince_1: Why 3 ticks blw inside bar? (04:54 PM) elly_34: could u please give the times of the 15 min bars? (04:54 PM) kber: did that already, Buffy (04:55 PM) Buffy_04364: sorry it didn't work kber (04:55 PM) Gorillatrader: 3 ticks works better (04:55 PM) skyprince_1: thnks (04:55 PM) elly_34: times of the entries please? (04:55 PM) Tom_B: losing ur audio dave (04:55 PM) Tom_B: ok, now (04:55 PM) skyprince_1: times on bottom of charts (04:56 PM) Buffy_04364: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/Retro-Trader/2001-09-25.gif (04:56 PM) laniermasters: 3 ticks 1.5 pts. in NQ, right? (04:56 PM) John 4242: y (04:56 PM) ice_50: yes (04:56 PM) skyprince_1: y (04:56 PM) laniermasters: thx (04:56 PM) Buffy_04364: your data might be different so safer to watch charts dave posted maybe (04:56 PM) Gorillatrader: yes (04:56 PM) John 4242: yes (04:56 PM) wayne_53: in this case you went against the 20ema right (04:57 PM) wayne_53: ok (04:57 PM) QSuzy: Those are reversals on 5min, right? (04:57 PM) wayne_53: the only other exit is a stop correct (04:58 PM) Buffy_04364: exits are trailing stops (04:58 PM) Buffy_04364: yes on 5m (04:59 PM) ice_50: also how long does the side line last (05:00 PM) ice_50: okay (05:01 PM) kber: there are no logs for Sept, right? (05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: 5M BO includes trinagles -ranges - and trendlines (05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: under stats kber (05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: logs were done when Dave was on vacation (05:01 PM) ice_50: so just to reconfirm we use a triangle for the side line (05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: break out triangle to re-enter after standing aside (05:02 PM) kber: since I can't hear anything, are you looking at today's chart? (05:02 PM) elly_34: my data must be completely different (05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: yes (05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: trying to type some of it in kber (05:03 PM) elly_34: i have price at that time as 1199 Paltalk: Get 4 DVDs for 49¢ each plush s&h. CLICK HERE NOW FOR 4 DVD's @ 49 ¢ EACH! (05:03 PM) dave_b_quick: looking at todays chat posted at www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com on retrotrader page (05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/Retro-Trader/2001-09-25.gif (05:03 PM) kber: thanks, Buffy Paltalk: Love PalTalk but hate the banners and popups? Go bannerless! Only $9.95 per year! Click HELP on your Pal List then click 'Bannerless PalTalk'. (05:03 PM) skyprince_1: y (05:03 PM) elly_34: i have a different entry price (05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: trade five was stopped out on inside bar (05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: stopped into trade 6 on 15M BO (05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: trade six was a retracement on 5m chart (05:05 PM) elly_34: i corrected it, gonna have to open qcharts ugh (05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: which is retros add which was at 12:50 (05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: just look at dave's posted chart to follow now (05:06 PM) elly_34: #6 i have same price, # 5 bar for me is completely different,,,,which doesn't make me trust esignal then (05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: stopped out on 5m with higher low (05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: that is retro indication of probably trend change (05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: ill fated attempt at bottom picking (05:06 PM) elly_34: i bet that is it (05:06 PM) Gorillatrader: eSignal is correct (05:06 PM) elly_34: yes please, i think that is the problem (05:06 PM) elly_34: thank you (05:07 PM) skyprince_1: y (05:07 PM) John 4242: y (05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: same here (05:07 PM) sunny_850: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/what.html (05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: seven was stoped out because test of previous swing high (05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: minor 2b (05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: this toggled our trend bias to down again for trade 8 (05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: short at 1189 (05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: after in that trade 2 up bars so 8a is an add (05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: 1174.50 (05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: both 8 and 8a were promptly stopped out on 2b reversal on 5m chart (05:09 PM) Gorillatrader: www.thinkman.com Dimension4 free time syncronization program (05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: when you add a contract dave (05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: is the stop moved to 5 pts or to where retro would normally have the stop (05:10 PM) Buffy_04364: trade 9 1178.50 (05:10 PM) Buffy_04364: dave I asked a ? that I think you missed (05:10 PM) Buffy_04364: just a few lines up about the stop (05:11 PM) elly_34: thks buffy and gt (05:11 PM) Buffy_04364: when you add (05:12 PM) Buffy_04364: yes initial will already have stop in place and add a second stop loss for new contract of 5 pts and keep logical stop for original (05:12 PM) Buffy_04364: so original above swing high right before 8A and then because of test both stops moved to 8,8a 1177.50 (05:12 PM) Buffy_04364: tks dave (05:13 PM) Tom_B: trade 8 on 5m wht was rev sig ? Paltalk: Get your FREE credit report @ ConsumerInfo.Com! CLICK HERE NOW FOR YOUR FREE CREDIT REPORT! (05:13 PM) Tom_B: 5m 2b ? (05:14 PM) Buffy_04364: ended up being 3 of them didn't it dave (05:14 PM) Tom_B: 2B confusing.. no bar between (05:15 PM) Buffy_04364: yes this is the hardest of retro to see and I always miss it (05:15 PM) Buffy_04364: must have down bar right dave? (05:15 PM) Tom_B: y (05:16 PM) elly_34: Gt once i download is there anything further to do after installation? do i need to manually adjust clock first time to it or no? (05:16 PM) Tom_B: ok (05:16 PM) Gorillatrader: Buffy, tricky (05:16 PM) skyprince_1: Minor as opposed to ?? (05:16 PM) laniermasters: Dave, would it possible (in the future) to add a faint, gray grid to the background of your charts so it would be easier to see what's where? (05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: ok that is what makes it so hard to see has it still has higher high and higher low (05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: is it down based on close (05:16 PM) skyprince_1: ic (05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: vic has minor intermediate and major 2bs right? (05:17 PM) laniermasters: thanks (05:17 PM) Buffy_04364: I need to know the answer to elly also GT (05:18 PM) Gorillatrader: these 2B's will be difficult to mathematically expressed for programming in Ensign or TradeStation (05:18 PM) Buffy_04364: did you get the file tom sent you to post that T sent all from trader vics book (05:18 PM) Gorillatrader: too much subjectivity (05:18 PM) Buffy_04364: I believe it GT (05:18 PM) Buffy_04364: would have to be based on close (05:19 PM) Buffy_04364: GT after installing the time file anything else have to be done as elly asked (05:19 PM) Gorillatrader: ok (05:19 PM) kber: Buffy, when it's convenient, maybe you could answer this. Retro's stops are 5 pts or less, but the ave 5m HL range on the NQ since Dec. is about 9.5 pts, and the std dev is almost 6 pts. If the entry averages out to the middle, you're likely to move almost 5 pts either way on average on all but the smallest bars.. (05:21 PM) Buffy_04364: minor 2b still toggles the trend (05:21 PM) kber: So the stop seems too samll (05:21 PM) kber: small (05:21 PM) Gorillatrader: the 5pt does not take in account the volatil;ity at the time (05:21 PM) Buffy_04364: true kber and a problem - having those figures might help figure it out (05:21 PM) Tom_B: i missed the 2b (05:21 PM) Buffy_04364: true GT it doesn't (05:21 PM) Gorillatrader: that is a good discussion, kber, for money management chat on Thursday (05:22 PM) Gorillatrader: then again, if it accounnts for volatility, the stops could be wider, much wider (05:22 PM) elly_34: that to me is a normal retracement in an uptrend on 5 min (05:22 PM) elly_34: think he's not looking buffy :) (05:22 PM) kber: well, since the stop is the exit, it seems integral to the system Paltalk: Britney,Dido,Outkast,+ MORE! 12 CDs Free + s&h. CLICK HERE NOW FOR 12 FREE CD's! (05:23 PM) kber: money mgt is more how many contracts you trade, tec. (05:23 PM) kber: etc. (05:23 PM) skyprince_1: Dave, are all current rules published on your home page? (05:24 PM) skyprince_1: Yes, have them....just wondered if current (05:24 PM) QSuzy: dave.....I haven't been around for awhile so not following daily......I know you were looking to make 2-6 trades per day......was today more trades than usual for you? (05:24 PM) skyprince_1: thnks (05:26 PM) elly_34: it would be nice to backtest some variables on this (05:26 PM) skyprince_1: So...where do you see refinements? IN exit strategies? (05:26 PM) elly_34: are we close to it being programmed? (05:26 PM) Oscar5: hi all (05:27 PM) skyprince_1: Backtesting first, right? (05:27 PM) QSuzy: Gorilla....are you programming in EW or TS? (05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: elly GT has it start as soon as internet connections is detected (05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: when dimension 4 window pops up be sure to minimize it (05:28 PM) kber: I'm doing it in Excel (05:28 PM) Gorillatrader: TS (05:28 PM) Gorillatrader: TradeStation Pro (05:28 PM) kber: just need to get clear on the details (05:28 PM) Gorillatrader: not compatible with any other TradeStation (05:29 PM) Buffy_04364: lol so true (05:29 PM) laniermasters: GT, let me what I can do to help with the programming for TSPro. (05:29 PM) rodman_3: working on it using tick data for 2000 and 2001 programmed in C++, (05:30 PM) Gorillatrader: thx, lanier (05:30 PM) skyprince_1: Cool (05:30 PM) rodman_3: when you use TS they do not model limit orders and tick mvement correctly (05:30 PM) laniermasters: Rod, what do you mean? (05:30 PM) Gorillatrader: aware, rod (05:31 PM) Buffy_04364: GT where do you go to set preference on dimension4 (05:31 PM) Gorillatrader: the new TS Pro does not use the "bouncing ticks" (05:31 PM) skyprince_1: Must be some software out there that would do this....without re-inventing the wheel.... (05:31 PM) Gorillatrader: no idea, I installed it 3 years ago (05:31 PM) Buffy_04364: lol (05:32 PM) rodman_3: is TS Pro tick data (05:32 PM) kber: why do you need tick data with 5-min bars? (05:32 PM) larrybf: dave- what time framesareyou using personally?15/5 min or 9/3min? (05:32 PM) Gorillatrader: data is from Comstock (05:33 PM) Gorillatrader: 9/3min when I use it Paltalk: Get 4 DVDs for 49¢ each plus s&h. CLICK HERE NOW FOR 4 DVD's @ 49 ¢ EACH! Paltalk: Please support our sponsors by clicking on banners. (05:34 PM) skyprince_1: So...let's all pass the cup, and get this written...:) (05:35 PM) rodman_3: tick data is important because you could have a wide range bar that gets you into the trade, then goes 5 against you but then closes in favor of the trade. TS would not stop you out but in real trading you would be (05:35 PM) QSuzy: OT question......Is MikeB no longer affiliated with TLo?.......Went to trendvue site today and no mention of him..... (05:35 PM) elly_34: i'm interested in filters that have smaller profit objective if the trade is counter the 15 min trend as defined by being under/over the 20 ema, and regular retro stop rules etc if on the "correct:" side of the 20 ema (15 min) (05:36 PM) kber: very true, rodman (05:36 PM) rodman_3: did they correct the limit order problem? (05:36 PM) QSuzy: dave,thanks....I've been gone awhile so hard to keep up with everyone.... (05:36 PM) jam_27: Has anybody used Futurewise Traders, any comments (05:36 PM) larrybf: is mike agood teacher? (05:38 PM) Gorillatrader: can't hear buffy (05:38 PM) QSuzy: Will Thursday's chat be saved for later review? (05:38 PM) skyprince_1: Can't hear....mic on? (05:38 PM) dave_b_quick: y (05:38 PM) skyprince_1: Yes (05:38 PM) Gorillatrader: yes (05:38 PM) dave_b_quick: good now (05:38 PM) skyprince_1: y (05:38 PM) QSuzy: buffy, better (05:38 PM) GGriz: y (05:38 PM) dave_b_quick: why we need money management (05:38 PM) kber: what 20ema values would be deemed a trend... can't just use >0 or <0 (05:38 PM) larrybf: the futurewise website looks very amateurish. the person i spoke to knows almost nothing about futures trading. i would avoid them! (05:38 PM) dave_b_quick: different mm strategies (05:39 PM) Gorillatrader: why not, kber? (05:39 PM) skyprince_1: Without it, we have no money..or need to manage it! (05:39 PM) rodman_3: kber, if you do at linear regression fit you can test for significant slope (05:39 PM) Buffy_04364: price loves to chop around MAs for sure (05:40 PM) kber: right, that's what I was thinking about (05:40 PM) Gorillatrader: kber, what software you have? (05:40 PM) kber: but just above/below zero will kill us (05:40 PM) kber: Excel (05:41 PM) Gorillatrader: good luck (05:41 PM) skyprince_1: I strive to keep it simple....fewer indicators much better.... (05:41 PM) kber: VB can do just about anything with Excel (05:41 PM) dave_b_quick: VB is a powerful language, but i'm not very good with it :-( (05:42 PM) Buffy_04364: I know a few who make it sing for sure (05:42 PM) dave_b_quick: i'm with you, skyprince (05:42 PM) skyprince_1: Thanks Dave...got to run....this was grand! Nice group.... (05:42 PM) kber: for this project, don't really even need macros (05:42 PM) Buffy_04364: cleared up lots of confusion (05:42 PM) Buffy_04364: thanks Dave for doing this (05:42 PM) ice_50: thanks dave take care (05:42 PM) sunny_850: tks dave (05:42 PM) John 4242: Thanks, Dave -- (05:42 PM) Tom_B: tnx Dve, hope we can review these days a few times/wk (05:43 PM) laniermasters: Thanks, thanks (05:43 PM) QSuzy: thanks dave.....and everyone else!! (05:43 PM) kber: Dave, you leaving? (05:43 PM) Buffy_04364: http://www.esignal.com/support/Bulletins/better_indices.asp (05:43 PM) Buffy_04364: esignal made some improvement (05:43 PM) Oscar5: is it ++about programs the lessons here? Paltalk: Credit report online. Always private, always secure, get yours FREE from ConsumerInfo.Com! CLICK HERE NOW FOR YOUR FREE CREDIT REPORT! (05:43 PM) Buffy_04364: oh update indexes more often now (05:43 PM) kber: Buffy, you leaving too? (05:43 PM) Buffy_04364: no (05:44 PM) kber: maybe you can fill me in in a sentence or two with what was said? (05:44 PM) dave_b_quick: If there are no more questions, i'll get ready for PTA! (05:44 PM) Buffy_04364: instead of 66 sec updates now do 30 secs and if it was 30 secs now doing ever 6 sec (05:45 PM) Oscar5: whereover have u please (05:45 PM) Buffy_04364: indu is every 2 sec (05:45 PM) Buffy_04364: will try kber (05:45 PM) Buffy_04364: about the programming of retro? (05:46 PM) Buffy_04364: or the highlights of retro discussion? (05:46 PM) kber: yes (05:46 PM) Buffy_04364: which? (05:46 PM) kber: well... either I guess (05:46 PM) Buffy_04364: gt is working on it (05:46 PM) Buffy_04364: there are others also working on it (05:47 PM) laniermasters: Won't typed version be posted on the site so kber can read it? (05:47 PM) Gorillatrader: already is (05:48 PM) kber: are they working on the generic formulas to represent the Retro system, or do they have that already? (05:48 PM) Buffy_04364: yes ifyou are refering to this chat and I remembered to type what was being said (05:48 PM) kber: GT, typed is already posted? (05:48 PM) Buffy_04364: that wasn't mentioned kber (05:48 PM) Buffy_04364: was it GT