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rich012: larry, I use IB as primary, Best as backup.  
(09:23 AM) rich012: I haven't used Best in a few months, though.  :-)
(09:24 AM) rich012: I don't like having to have two accoounts especially when one is hardly ever used, but that is the cost of doing business.  Insurance.
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(09:27 AM) Buffy_04364: a 123 does not take out the previous high it has a lower high
(09:27 AM) larrybf: yeah rich. i lost some money last month because of an internet problem.Ib system is greatbut 0% phone support
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(09:27 AM) Buffy_04364: becomes a 2b when it takes out the high
(09:28 AM) rich012: larry, right.  You need two brokers imo.
(09:28 AM) rich012: At least two!
(09:29 AM) larrybf: yeah ilearnedthe hard way!
(09:29 AM) rich012: After 9/11, it might be a good idea to make sure your two brokers are in different buildings,etc...  Sad but true.
(09:30 AM) Buffy_04364: different states might be better  :-)
(09:30 AM) Buffy_04364: casino is open
(09:31 AM) Orprepus: $50 on red 15 please
(09:32 AM) dbphoenix: A 2b, though, requires some definition of "failure". 
(09:35 AM) Buffy_04364: when it doesn't continue after poking through the previous high
(09:35 AM) Buffy_04364: that is why retro moves stops up when it could be happening
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(09:36 AM) Buffy_04364: oh Howard has released the software and it can now be downloaded through ensign.  The class weds is going to be on the new features
(09:37 AM) jimbo_320: hello
(09:37 AM) Buffy_04364: hi Jimbo
(09:38 AM) Daniel X: gm  Jimbo   ...es today for me
(09:38 AM) dbphoenix: However, if one uses that definition of failure, he can wind up with a sawtooth top.  But this is probably better left to email.
(09:38 AM) jimbo_320: retro?
(09:38 AM) Daniel X: yes trying
(09:39 AM) Daniel X: u?
(09:39 AM) Buffy_04364: that is what the email was set up for - all ? about retro - working out great IMO
(09:39 AM) jimbo_320: 15/5?
(09:39 AM) Daniel X: and 1
(09:39 AM) jimbo_320: scapling on 1?
(09:40 AM) Daniel X: no looking for assurance
(09:40 AM) dbphoenix: In at 1195.
(09:41 AM) dbphoenix: Up to BE.
(09:44 AM) wayne_53: any reports out at 10:00am
(09:44 AM) Buffy_04364: yes
(09:44 AM) Buffy_04364: consumer confidence and housing
(09:44 AM) Buffy_04364: I believe
(09:44 AM) wayne_53: thnx
(09:44 AM) Buffy_04364: u welc
(09:44 AM) dbphoenix: Trailing by 5 till there's a pullback.
(09:44 AM) Buffy_04364: nice dp
(09:45 AM) jimbo_320: has paltalk added more popups?
(09:45 AM) dbphoenix: Sure seems so.
(09:45 AM) Daniel X: seems like it
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(09:46 AM) jimbo_320: getting on my nerves
(09:48 AM) ppusa: pay the 9.95
(09:48 AM) ppusa: worth it
(09:49 AM) Daniel X: aaahhhh consumer confidence  at 10 am    i forgot!!!!!!
(09:50 AM) Daniel X: and home sales
(09:51 AM) jimbo_320: is that per year?
(09:51 AM) Buffy_04364: it sure is I am very happy I paid
(09:51 AM) Buffy_04364: long time ago
(09:51 AM) Buffy_04364: nice sunset up there now
(09:51 AM) Buffy_04364: yes per year jimbo
(09:54 AM) dbphoenix: Stopped out.
(09:54 AM) Buffy_04364: lower high on 3m
(09:55 AM) Buffy_04364: back into the 123 S and R lines
(09:55 AM) elly_34: 9 min retro worked with a trail stop
(09:56 AM) elly_34: 15 min was stopped -5
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(09:56 AM) dbphoenix: Finding support at opening high, tho.
(09:56 AM) dbphoenix: Or I should say pre-market high.
(09:57 AM) Daniel X: spike on news watch it
(09:57 AM) dbphoenix: Back in at 1206.
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(09:59 AM) ppusa: can't imagine consumer confidence will be very high
(09:59 AM) ppusa: whether or not it is in the market is the question
(09:59 AM) dbphoenix: To BE.
(09:59 AM) Buffy_04364: bad numbers are built in I think
(10:00 AM) ppusa: nope
(10:00 AM) jimbo_320: wow
(10:00 AM) Daniel X: there it is
(10:00 AM) dbphoenix: Stopped out, obviously :0)
(10:00 AM) ppusa: not to bad
(10:00 AM) Buffy_04364: that is why I usually stand aside
(10:00 AM) dbphoenix: No, it's not.
(10:00 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(10:01 AM) dbphoenix: Made five points, though.
(10:01 AM) elly_34: can't imagine being in during that
(10:01 AM) Buffy_04364: I sure wouldn't want to
(10:01 AM) elly_34: got a decent fill?
(10:01 AM) ppusa: db i am afraid to ask how far away from your price
(10:01 AM) jimbo_320: 11 point range on es 3 min
(10:02 AM) Buffy_04364: 1211-1181 on nq]
(10:02 AM) jimbo_320: is the news out yet?
(10:02 AM) ppusa: hello
(10:04 AM) Buffy_04364: must be but going to wait
(10:04 AM) Buffy_04364: until it settles down and decides what it wants to do here
(10:04 AM) Buffy_04364: hate those WR bars
(10:04 AM) MarkCA: confidence 97.6 vs 105 consensus
(10:05 AM) jimbo_320: and the market is up?
(10:05 AM) ppusa: i thought i heard Friday was record volume...if so could be bottom for next rally....i still think maybe saucer 3 low rally but looks like long for awhile.
(10:05 AM) Buffy_04364: up on bad news hmmm
(10:05 AM) ppusa: if this were pre Friday, all of you would have shorted a bounce like that
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(10:06 AM) rich012: Anyone have the actual lows for the big ND and SP contracts on that spike down?
(10:07 AM) ppusa: nd 1198
(10:07 AM) ppusa: 10700
(10:07 AM) ppusa: 100700
(10:07 AM) boomer_98: anyone know where the next  resistance is
(10:07 AM) ppusa: sp = sp1z
(10:08 AM) MarkCA: last simulator trade took 30 sec for market order.  not very useful
(10:08 AM) ab_18: consumer confidence doesn't help trader confidence  1016,1020
(10:08 AM) Daniel X: 5.5 es
(10:09 AM) ppusa: 15 min chart = up bar outside bar, up bar outside bar
(10:09 AM) rich012: tz ppuse
(10:09 AM) rich012: tx, ppusa
(10:12 AM) ppusa: nq PnF buy signals all charts through 25 point...buy signals on 50 and 75 point above 1226.
(10:12 AM) Tom_B: di retro rebuy @ 1212.5 ?
(10:13 AM) jimbo_320: at least volume has improved
(10:13 AM) Buffy_04364: posted 1M pyra just started watching it
(10:15 AM) Daniel X: +2 es
(10:15 AM) ppusa: resis here?
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(10:16 AM) Daniel X: pivot res 1 @1220
(10:16 AM) Daniel X: 1223 sorry
(10:16 AM) ppusa: 26 was high bunce couple trading days ago
(10:16 AM) larrybf: does anyone play those 8 am and 10 am announcements?
(10:16 AM) dbphoenix: Since everybody seems to be doing retro, I'll keep mum on my trades unless somebody's particularly interested.
(10:16 AM) ppusa: 10 and 15 point PnF looking a little obot
(10:17 AM) Daniel X: yah i recovered yesterdays' losses
(10:17 AM) ppusa: never hurts to share signals
(10:17 AM) dave_b_quik: not everybody is doing retro, db, we just make more noise, don't keep mum!
(10:17 AM) Daniel X: wwoohhhoo
(10:18 AM) Daniel X: zippity do daa zippity day
(10:19 AM) ppusa: don't you hate getting excited over b/e?
(10:19 AM) Daniel X: lol
(10:19 AM) Daniel X: yes
(10:19 AM) Daniel X: !!
(10:20 AM) dbphoenix: Have a 2 point loss and a BE after 10:10
(10:20 AM) Daniel X: DB u like playingthe news?
(10:21 AM) ppusa: +3
(10:21 AM) dbphoenix: I try to ignore it.
(10:21 AM) ppusa: used trader up 767 points
(10:21 AM) ppusa: 76
(10:21 AM) Daniel X: ok 
(10:22 AM) dbphoenix: Whether that's a good idea or not would depend on how touchy the market is, I guess.  Obviously it's currently touchy.
(10:22 AM) MarkCA: what is used trader?
(10:22 AM) dbphoenix: Remember the day the Fed made that surprise intraday rate cut?
(10:22 AM) Daniel X: he is 
(10:22 AM) Daniel X: yes i do
(10:22 AM) Daniel X: i was in it
(10:22 AM) dbphoenix: Oh Jeez.
(10:22 AM) dave_b_quik: db, 50 point bar on the NQ1m?
(10:23 AM) dbphoenix: Well, you're still here.  Congratulations.
(10:23 AM) elly_34: was retro stop the bottom of the prev 5 min bar pls?
(10:23 AM) Daniel X: driving around in my car when i heard
(10:23 AM) dbphoenix: Or were you long?
(10:23 AM) Daniel X: long yes
(10:23 AM) dbphoenix: Get away from me :0)
(10:23 AM) Daniel X: stock options at the time
(10:24 AM) ppusa: MarkCA used trader is me holding some longs
(10:24 AM) dave_b_quik: elly, IB -3tics
(10:24 AM) MarkCA: ok
(10:24 AM) Daniel X: what u bought 1150 area PPUSA?
(10:24 AM) ppusa: no
(10:25 AM) Daniel X: scalping?!
(10:25 AM) ppusa: remember the day we hit 1097 and i bot morning 1200?
(10:26 AM) ppusa: i1100
(10:26 AM) Daniel X: kinda
(10:26 AM) Tom_B: dbq, was retro 2nd entry 1212.5 ?
(10:26 AM) ppusa: 1100
(10:26 AM) Daniel X: averaged down oh isee
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(10:26 AM) ppusa: i lied, i bot 1099
(10:26 AM) Daniel X: lol
(10:26 AM) dave_b_quik: yes, tom
(10:26 AM) dbphoenix: Stalking these 3 and 5m bars.
(10:26 AM) Tom_B: tnx
(10:27 AM) dave_b_quik: ya, db, looks promising
(10:27 AM) Daniel X: Jimbo how u doing?
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(10:27 AM) ppusa: actually Dan, i have been buying from 1300....will have party at b/e
(10:28 AM) jimbo_320: not much dan at the moment
(10:28 AM) Daniel X: ha lol
(10:28 AM) Daniel X: ok Jim
(10:28 AM) jimbo_320: looking for short
(10:28 AM) ppusa: discouraging huh b/e sucks
(10:29 AM) Daniel X: hurts deep in the gut waitng
(10:29 AM) Daniel X: burns actually
(10:30 AM) Daniel X: u dump the Natural Gas?
(10:31 AM) ppusa: 1229.50 HOD?
(10:31 AM) ppusa: unleaded no
(10:31 AM) ppusa: huge hit yester
(10:31 AM) Daniel X: oh ok yes i heard
(10:31 AM) Daniel X: is wy i asked
(10:31 AM) ppusa: don't care
(10:32 AM) ppusa: see what next
(10:32 AM) ppusa: long term
(10:32 AM) Daniel X: as soon as the 1rst missile is launched
(10:33 AM) ppusa: shouldhave had mpre patience on entry
(10:33 AM) ppusa: back to nq
(10:33 AM) ppusa: 15 point PnF needs reverse
(10:33 AM) Daniel X: yes but with the current crisis noone expected it to drop
(10:34 AM) ppusa: actually they did
(10:34 AM) Daniel X: back in 5 mins
(10:34 AM) ppusa: airline excess
(10:34 AM) Daniel X: oh yes stupid me ...thats y i don't trade it
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(10:37 AM) Tom_B: holding supp here..
(10:38 AM) ppusa: 15 point PnF reversed
(10:39 AM) ppusa: 25 point due next maybe take out high then pb again to here
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(10:42 AM) Daniel X: CC # not to bad given the situation but home sales is what i find suprising..i guess $ going into realestate is seen as beginning to build a foundation or stabilization in the economy
(10:43 AM) ppusa: were home sales strong?
(10:43 AM) Daniel X: yep
(10:43 AM) ppusa: low rates
(10:43 AM) Daniel X: uh huh
(10:43 AM) ppusa: CC cut off due to 9/11 or would have been worse (cnbc)
(10:44 AM) Daniel X: what ?
(10:44 AM) Daniel X: idiots
(10:45 AM) ppusa: analyst guy said would have been worse 
(10:45 AM) ppusa: something about 9/11 info not included
(10:45 AM) Daniel X: the actual # or the reaction would have been worse?
(10:46 AM) ppusa: both
(10:46 AM) Daniel X: really
(10:46 AM) ppusa: # would have
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(10:46 AM) ppusa: so reaction too?
(10:47 AM) Daniel X: well  u  know what they say...time to buy when things seem at ttheir worse
(10:47 AM) Tom_B: the fact that buyers were there means shrt term bullish to me
(10:47 AM) Daniel X: me too
(10:47 AM) Daniel X: we were before the attck
(10:48 AM) Daniel X: people seem to think we only have a delay in the recovery
(10:48 AM) Daniel X: hope they're right
(10:48 AM) ppusa: daily chart normal expectations
(10:48 AM) Tom_B: after that wide range bar we may go into  trange
(10:48 AM) Tom_B: Daniel, time to dust off scalptro ?
(10:49 AM) Daniel X: lol seems so
(10:49 AM) ppusa: potential HOD and retest of 1100 low
(10:49 AM) ppusa: dow only +66
(10:49 AM) Daniel X: 1 min sideways not helping
(10:50 AM) dbphoenix: Too many downbars on 3 and 5.  No upward pressure.
(10:51 AM) Daniel X: holding EMAs though
(10:51 AM) Tom_B: retro shrt, i guess
(10:51 AM) dbphoenix: Yes, and we're holding at yesterday's high.  But there's no push.
(10:52 AM) dbphoenix: I'd short a 2b.  But the distance from here to 1190 just isn't worth it to me.
(10:53 AM) Daniel X: entry is the question
(10:53 AM) Tom_B: & Time frame
(10:54 AM) ppusa: yesterday i added up my rt's incorrectly said 12 ... only 8
(10:54 AM) Tom_B: starving ur bkr ?? :)
(10:55 AM) Daniel X: 12 contract probably
(10:56 AM) ppusa: yes Tom, feels good
(10:56 AM) Tom_B: lol
(10:56 AM) ppusa: 1 rt = 1 contract
(10:56 AM) jimbo_320: have all the traders gone home already?
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(10:57 AM) Daniel X: oh ok
(10:57 AM) ppusa: 5 trades, 12 rt's
(10:58 AM) ppusa: today 4 trades 4 rt's
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(10:58 AM) skylla: what trades are you in ?
(10:58 AM) ppusa: should have just stayed short but was a little slow on entry
(10:58 AM) ppusa: shorted at 1220
(10:58 AM) ppusa: 1223
(10:59 AM) ppusa: then in and out three times
(10:59 AM) ppusa: should have gone short big and stayed
(10:59 AM) ppusa: need retest 1100
(11:00 AM) elly_34: shoot
(11:00 AM) dbphoenix: I would have shorted a retest of the HOD, but there really wasn't one, at least to me.
(11:00 AM) elly_34: i know i have some bars that don't belong in ensign but i'm not sure what ones, what do i do Buffy?
(11:01 AM) Buffy_04364: what tf elly
(11:01 AM) skylla: next down target 1180
(11:01 AM) elly_34: 15 min
(11:01 AM) Buffy_04364: tick or minute
(11:01 AM) ppusa: I use pNf FOR A TRADE LIKE THAT (cap lock)
(11:01 AM) elly_34: min
(11:02 AM) Buffy_04364: ok put cursor on the bar to the right of bad bar
(11:02 AM) Buffy_04364: right click
(11:02 AM) Buffy_04364: click on delete to the left
(11:02 AM) elly_34: trying to figure out which is bad bar
(11:02 AM) Buffy_04364: want me to post mine?
(11:02 AM) elly_34: sure
(11:02 AM) Buffy_04364: it should be ok
(11:02 AM) elly_34: thanks
(11:03 AM) Buffy_04364: done
(11:03 AM) jimbo_320: anyones nextrend playing up this morning?
(11:03 AM) elly_34: i noticed that i had clicked on different time frame for that chart and then when i clicked back to 15, it was different
(11:03 AM) ppusa: PnF was overbot then wait for signal but tired and reacting slow
(11:03 AM) elly_34: have u ever done that?
(11:03 AM) Buffy_04364: not on a minute chart that I noticed but have on the tick chart
(11:04 AM) elly_34: looks like i have a bunch exctra
(11:04 AM) Buffy_04364: tick server set to zero helps solve it
(11:04 AM) Daniel X: ES B?E
(11:04 AM) Daniel X: b/e
(11:04 AM) Buffy_04364: do you new version?
(11:04 AM) Buffy_04364: yet
(11:05 AM) Buffy_04364: didn't slide back did it?  right date and time?
(11:05 AM) elly_34: yes have the new version
(11:05 AM) jimbo_320: made +3.75 on that down move with NO charts !
(11:06 AM) Buffy_04364: nice jimbo
(11:06 AM) Buffy_04364: dated the 22nd
(11:06 AM) Buffy_04364: or wait another one yesterday
(11:06 AM) elly_34: buffy it says delete all bars to the left
(11:06 AM) elly_34: i only want to delete one at a time
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(11:06 AM) jimbo_320: either my isp is slow or nextrend is playing up
(11:07 AM) Buffy_04364: there is an option to delete bar
(11:07 AM) Buffy_04364: use that instead of delete left
(11:07 AM) Buffy_04364: date should be the 24th
(11:07 AM) Buffy_04364: on ensing
(11:07 AM) Buffy_04364: ensign
(11:07 AM) elly_34: k ty
(11:08 AM) Buffy_04364: all set?
(11:08 AM) dave_b_quik: you can put the cursor on the offending bar and click <ctrl>D to delete 1 bar too
(11:08 AM) Buffy_04364: tks dave
(11:09 AM) elly_34: buffy do u mind posting a 5 min chart pls?
(11:09 AM) ppusa: rained here last night
(11:10 AM) ppusa: first time real rain in months
Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
(11:11 AM) elly_34: thanks
(11:11 AM) elly_34: this problem started i think from changing tf on the same chart
(11:11 AM) Buffy_04364: done
(11:11 AM) elly_34: thanks
(11:11 AM) Buffy_04364: that is very possible
(11:11 AM) ppusa: Elly what time did your rain start?
(11:11 AM) Buffy_04364: depends on your server settings
(11:12 AM) Tom_B: dbq, had stp mvd dwn on retro or was it at orig location ?
(11:12 AM) dave_b_quik: 13.5 :-(
(11:13 AM) elly_34: last night ppusa maybe around 7-8 pm
(11:13 AM) Tom_B: ok.....tnx..-11.5 so far ?
(11:14 AM) ppusa: later here
(11:14 AM) dave_b_quik: -5, +3.5, -5
(11:14 AM) ppusa: came through you i guess
(11:15 AM) Tom_B: dbq, no sell @ 1212.0 ?
(11:16 AM) dave_b_quik: y
(11:16 AM) Tom_B: y a sell /
(11:16 AM) Tom_B: ?
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(11:18 AM) dave_b_quik: oh, ya, tom, you had it right
(11:18 AM) Tom_B: k, tnx
(11:20 AM) Tom_B: this is where retro gets tough for me to define beginning of new trend...now aside..2 loses if this 5 min bar is IB then w shd take bkout of 15m bar in dir of bkout of 5m IB...but might just be TRange... so..???
(11:22 AM) Hollie_: ok
(11:22 AM) Hollie_: sorry, wrong room..
(11:22 AM) ppusa: w shd take bkout of 15m bar in dir of bkou ... foreign language
(11:23 AM) Tom_B: ?
(11:23 AM) Buffy_04364: yes it might be tom and is a good thing to be aware of
(11:23 AM) Buffy_04364: the fact into a range possiblity
(11:24 AM) Hollie_: watching 3 min
(11:24 AM) dave_b_quik: Tom, that's why we have the stand aside rule
Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
(11:26 AM) Tom_B: retro long 1216 now ?
(11:26 AM) Daniel X: 11:30 to 13:30 roughly
(11:26 AM) wayne_53: thnx
(11:26 AM) Daniel X: unless volume picks up of course
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(11:27 AM) Daniel X: and this last move was on low volume..less likelyhood of follow through on signals
(11:28 AM) ppusa: somebody put their water in boss Keene's yard and I have to go move it
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(11:31 AM) Daniel X: DING DING DING...buy/sell button disabled..see you all in 1/2 hour
(11:35 AM) ab_18: CME Q4  nq limits  5%    65.00   10%   130        (now -90.00 and -180.00)
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(11:41 AM) MarkCA: how often are these limits adjusted?
(11:41 AM) MarkCA: does it depend on how much the price changes?
(11:41 AM) ab_18: quarterly?
(11:42 AM) MarkCA: but what if there is a major swing in the market price?  could it be more often?
(11:42 AM) MarkCA: is this from the CME web site?
(11:42 AM) ab_18: y
(11:42 AM) MarkCA: tks
(11:44 AM) jimbo_320: 3 bloody pop ups
(11:44 AM) jimbo_320: just to log on
(11:45 AM) ab_18: paltalk   help    Bannerless Paltalk...
(11:46 AM) larrybf: itisastrong hint tothe 9.95
(11:46 AM) larrybf: to  pay  the 9.95
(11:46 AM) skyprince_1: Really ugly congestion..Yuck!
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(11:49 AM) dbphoenix: Just got back from the grocery store.  Looks like everything is right where I left it :0)
(11:51 AM) skyprince_1: UGH!
(11:53 AM) laniermasters: Does anybody know if there's a way to make font size larger in PalTalk?
(11:54 AM) Orprepus: buffy - I imagine today's trading is about as much fun as reading Don Hall's book
(11:56 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(11:56 AM) Buffy_04364: if you have the new version there is lanier
(11:56 AM) Buffy_04364: I don't have it but maybe someone who does can help you out
(11:57 AM) ppusa: laniermasters:   Does anybody know if there's a way to make font size larger in PalTalk? 
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(11:57 AM) ppusa: did that come through in 3 different font sizes?
(11:57 AM) Buffy_04364: no it didn't on the old version
(11:58 AM) Buffy_04364: should of on new one though I think
(11:58 AM) laniermasters: not to me - everythings on the small side for my eyes.
(11:58 AM) Buffy_04364: which version you have lanier
(11:58 AM) ppusa: how about some color?
(11:58 AM) laniermasters: How do I check version?
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(11:59 AM) ppusa: usually help
(11:59 AM) Buffy_04364: help then about paltalk
(11:59 AM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(11:59 AM) elly_34: ppusa, it's raining here now,,,is it there?
(11:59 AM) laniermasters: colors, names alterante green and blue
(11:59 AM) Buffy_04364: 3.5 here
(11:59 AM) ppusa: no
(11:59 AM) Buffy_04364: 4.0 is the new one
(11:59 AM) ppusa: windy
(11:59 AM) ppusa: 4.0 here
(11:59 AM) Buffy_04364: not the same thing lanier
(11:59 AM) Buffy_04364: all alternate colors
(12:00 PM) Buffy_04364: a flag on 3m?
(12:00 PM) laniermasters: I don't see how to find version under help?
(12:00 PM) dbphoenix: Any particular advantage to 4.0?
(12:00 PM) ppusa: color, size, underline, bold, italics and video
(12:00 PM) ab_18: http://www.nybot.com/   archived seminars  1/13/01@15:30 Steven Nison  "Spotting the Early Reversal Signals"  (this is power point with audio)    should you be interested...
(12:01 PM) laniermasters: thanks, all, I'll reload tonight.
(12:01 PM) dbphoenix: Bush really shouldn't hold press conferences.  He sounds like a real goober without a script.
(12:03 PM) dbphoenix: OTOH, we might get a retest of 1190.
(12:03 PM) dbphoenix: Do I ignore the fact that it's lunch, or do I go ahead?  Hmmm
(12:03 PM) ppusa: with or without
(12:04 PM) Tom_B: 2 diff schools of thought...trade the mkt or trade the clock ??
(12:04 PM) dbphoenix: As long as volume holds up, may as well trade the chart.
(12:04 PM) ppusa: i think today's secret chart says the high is in, no follow through
(12:05 PM) ppusa: if last 3 hours take out low of prior three, could be sell off
(12:05 PM) ppusa: not to mention action sure looks like same
(12:07 PM) Buffy_04364: thanks ab
(12:07 PM) dbphoenix: Not shorting that 123 was a mistake.
(12:07 PM) Tom_B: if we get below that spike, put ur helmet on
(12:07 PM) dbphoenix: Lesson repeated once again.
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(12:07 PM) jimbo_320: cow, writing emails and missed the sell off
(12:08 PM) dbphoenix: <g>
(12:09 PM) dbphoenix: OK.  Let's see if we get a 2b or a 123.
(12:09 PM) dbphoenix: Or both.
(12:11 PM) elly_34: retro sh from 1209.5 dave?
(12:13 PM) dbphoenix: Decent bounce, but DTL not broken on 10m
(12:13 PM) dave_b_quik: no, elly
(12:13 PM) Daniel X: what cause that move?
(12:14 PM) dbphoenix: The pizza arrived.
(12:14 PM) Daniel X: ah yes
(12:15 PM) Daniel X: seriously..no nesa?
(12:15 PM) Daniel X: news
(12:15 PM) elly_34: so the 5 min 2b top did not constitute a reversal and sh entry on 15?
(12:15 PM) dbphoenix: If this is the best the bulls can do, the sellers aren't likely to leave the field.
(12:15 PM) Daniel X: Jimbo ..i had a 16 sell and cancelled
(12:16 PM) Daniel X: cooking
(12:16 PM) Daniel X: brb
(12:16 PM) dave_b_quik: elly, because we were sidelined waiting for 5m breakout
(12:17 PM) jimbo_320: i knew es would sell off but question was when, guess it had to retest HOD first though
(12:17 PM) elly_34: well then breaking trhe 5 min swing low 8:05 was not?
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(12:18 PM) jimbo_320: lets see if 14 becomes resistance
(12:19 PM) dbphoenix: DTLs still holding.
(12:19 PM) dbphoenix: This is pitiful.  The bulls need a shot of Viagra.
(12:21 PM) Tom_B: retro resell 1190.5 /
(12:21 PM) Tom_B: ?
(12:21 PM) dave_b_quik: y
(12:21 PM) Tom_B: k
(12:22 PM) dbphoenix: Might get a bear trap setup here.
(12:25 PM) dbphoenix: If not, the downside may be worth playing.
(12:26 PM) jimbo_320: clunked of 1014 resistance, big gap below
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(12:29 PM) Daniel X: + 2 es
(12:29 PM) Daniel X: while making lunch...brb
(12:29 PM) Buffy_04364: good daniel
(12:29 PM) dbphoenix: Retest of 1190
(12:32 PM) rich012: Possibility of a very nice down move here on the NQ.  Those lows of last week need to be retested.  This might be the beginning of that retest.
(12:32 PM) dbphoenix: In
(12:33 PM) Tom_B: hve supp coming in right abt here
(12:33 PM) Daniel X: decent volume
(12:33 PM) Tom_B: prob aft pop under 1180
(12:33 PM) Daniel X: 1183
(12:33 PM) rich012: Especially considering that it should have had more up power today than it has.
(12:33 PM) Daniel X: pivot
(12:33 PM) dbphoenix: I show support at 1170.
(12:33 PM) ab_18: es could turn at 1002 area
(12:33 PM) dbphoenix: More or less.
(12:34 PM) dbphoenix: To BE
(12:36 PM) Daniel X: there has to be news
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(12:38 PM) david h_2: anyone know dunnigan s first name?
(12:39 PM) dbphoenix: I think it was William
(12:40 PM) jimbo_320: bounced right of LOD
(12:41 PM) dbphoenix: ES?
(12:41 PM) david h_2: thanks
(12:41 PM) Daniel X: well i found the best way to trade ES is to compare it to NQ imo with    9/3/1 combo
(12:41 PM) Daniel X: brb
(12:42 PM) dbphoenix: Yes, it's William.
(12:43 PM) david h_2: do you know the name of his book?
(12:44 PM) dbphoenix: New Blueprints for Gains in Stocks and Grains & One-Way Formula for Trading in Stocks and Commodities.  Sexy, huh?
(12:45 PM) dbphoenix: But what T does is an adaptation, so I don't know how much help the book would be unless you're just into this sort of thing.
(12:46 PM) dbphoenix: 1130 DTLs being broken to the upside.
(12:47 PM) david h_2: thanks DB
(12:47 PM) Tom_B: retro long 1191.5 ?
(12:47 PM) dbphoenix: Will there be a retest or will there not be a retest.  The crowd waits with baited breath.
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(12:48 PM) Daniel X: as traders rush to their screens
(12:48 PM) dbphoenix: No hurry, Daniel :0)
(12:49 PM) Daniel X: lol
(12:49 PM) Daniel X: how many here are sitting back or leaning forward?LOL
(12:49 PM) dbphoenix: I swear this is about as exciting as watching paint dry.
(12:49 PM) dbphoenix: No wonder people make mistakes in an environment like this.
(12:50 PM) dbphoenix: Here we go.
(12:50 PM) Daniel X: trap set watch out!!!
(12:50 PM) larrybf: Buffy-question?  is it possible to scalp successfully using only moving averages and candlestick charting?
(12:52 PM) jimbo_320: dan long or short trap :-)
(12:52 PM) larrybf: Anyone else able to answer that question?
(12:52 PM) Daniel X: short trap
(12:52 PM) dbphoenix: Below all the 20ps now.
(12:52 PM) Daniel X: there it was
(12:53 PM) jimbo_320: why is all the interesting action during lunch?
(12:53 PM) Tom_B: next 2 min or so will tell
(12:53 PM) dbphoenix: Wouldn't the trap have been at 1230?  That's when we dropped below the LOD.
(12:54 PM) Daniel X: sorry watching ES
(12:54 PM) dbphoenix: gotcha
(12:54 PM) jimbo_320: good that it bounce right of lod
(12:55 PM) Buffy_04364: larry - better if just using PA I think
(12:55 PM) Buffy_04364: there is safety in using the MA also but can miss out on moves
(12:56 PM) Buffy_04364: look for retro reversals, flags etc
(12:57 PM) jimbo_320: posted es chart
(12:57 PM) Buffy_04364: might want to try real short MAs like 3/5/8
(12:57 PM) Buffy_04364: tks jimbo
(12:57 PM) jimbo_320: question is how many more fakeouts until we go up?
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(01:01 PM) larrybf: thanks buffy- you always give great content answers
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(01:04 PM) Buffy_04364: that is nice to know :-)
(01:05 PM) Daniel X: ah man what's this popups during the day now?
(01:05 PM) Daniel X: i thought it was only at log on
(01:05 PM) Daniel X: so was it a short trap?
(01:05 PM) dbphoenix: Buffy may be right about the 9.95.
(01:05 PM) Daniel X: ;-)
(01:05 PM) Daniel X: i will pay it
(01:06 PM) Buffy_04364: It was the little man running around in the box that got to me
(01:06 PM) Daniel X: ha lol
(01:06 PM) Buffy_04364: don't know if he is still there or not
(01:06 PM) Tom_B: since whn all the pop ups ?
(01:06 PM) Buffy_04364: drove me nuts
(01:06 PM) Daniel X: no haven't seen him
(01:06 PM) dbphoenix: I hated that little sucker.  When I had Win98 it used to crash me all the time.
(01:07 PM) jimbo_320: any longs here?
(01:07 PM) dbphoenix: Yes.
(01:07 PM) wayne_53: you jimbo
(01:07 PM) Tom_B: retro long ?
(01:07 PM) dbphoenix: no
(01:07 PM) jimbo_320: bought 1008
(01:08 PM) jimbo_320: against all my rules not to trade lunch hour
(01:08 PM) Daniel X: based on?
(01:08 PM) Daniel X: basedon?
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(01:08 PM) jimbo_320: my chart jimbo2
(01:08 PM) wayne_53: jimbo....when does lunch end?
(01:09 PM) jimbo_320: 1.20 imo
(01:10 PM) jimbo_320: LOD tests during lunch have a better chance of holding imo
(01:10 PM) Daniel X: yep
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(01:12 PM) dbphoenix: That's where the bear and bull traps get set.  People set their stops too tight, or think that one tick one way or the other is a failure.
(01:13 PM) jimbo_320: agree 1.5 es under LOD is a good guideline
(01:13 PM) Daniel X: NQ entering RSI buy zone
(01:15 PM) jimbo_320: sold half for +2 rest stopped at 1006 so i get be on the trade anyway
(01:15 PM) jimbo_320: spread the chop risk gives me a free 2 point stop
(01:17 PM) dbphoenix: Not sure if I want to be here.
(01:17 PM) Daniel X: 1 min looking mighty choppy
(01:17 PM) dbphoenix: I'd like to see this chop closer to 1195 than 1190.
(01:18 PM) Daniel X: get a bove 1200 then we have a deal
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(01:18 PM) Tom_B: While this mkt looks like poop, if we can march a bit higher than we just put in a w:4 correction to the uptrend..imvho
(01:19 PM) Daniel X: w 4?
(01:19 PM) dbphoenix: Elliott, probably.
(01:20 PM) Tom_B: 1182 was a wave 4 projection for a pbk..if we take it out then lower , of course..if not then we shd at least tak eout today's hod
(01:21 PM) dbphoenix: That was a weird little congestion.  But I'll probably try again.
(01:21 PM) Daniel X: whats happening to ES ?
(01:21 PM) Tom_B: actually it was 1180.
(01:21 PM) Daniel X: NQ not participating
(01:22 PM) Daniel X:  an accomodation fill?
(01:22 PM) Daniel X: Jimbo did u see that?
(01:23 PM) jimbo_320: dan?
(01:23 PM) Daniel X: that  move in ES
(01:23 PM) jimbo_320: down?
(01:23 PM) Daniel X: yah from 9.5 to 6.5 in 5 sec
(01:23 PM) dbphoenix: UTL held on NQ.
(01:24 PM) jimbo_320: not on my charts
(01:24 PM) Buffy_04364: might be flag on 5M
(01:24 PM) Ensign Software: I would like some brain storming for implementation ideas.  If you want to listen in to the chat, fine.  If not, please ignore the conversation a few might be having with me.
(01:24 PM) Tom_B: vry strange day..
(01:24 PM) Daniel X: ES going nuts
(01:24 PM) Buffy_04364: you have more ideas howard
(01:25 PM) Buffy_04364: Hi
(01:25 PM) jimbo_320: oh well that trade was a waste of time, chop wins again
(01:25 PM) Daniel X: again ....what the?
(01:25 PM) dbphoenix: UTL broken.  Strange day indeed.
(01:26 PM) Buffy_04364: new release is running fine here today
(01:26 PM) jimbo_320: now it can go up, i'll tell you my stops, then you can do the opposite to me and you're bound to be quids in
(01:26 PM) Ensign Software: in the Sep 24th EW version it has come to our attention that the rework done to eliminate the Template MODE and make the Template button just apply study sets has removed the ability to put up  a chart, dress it with studies from a template button, and then scroll other symbols through the chart and retain the study set.
(01:26 PM) Buffy_04364: don't use that so didn't notice but ok
(01:27 PM) Ensign Software: so, that is the problem, absence of a mode to scroll symbols and retain the study set.
(01:27 PM) Buffy_04364: sense
(01:27 PM) Buffy_04364: makes sense
(01:27 PM) Ensign Software: any ideas on how this MODE should be put back in the EW?
(01:27 PM) Buffy_04364: oh ok
(01:27 PM) dbphoenix: Don't use it.
(01:27 PM) jimbo_320: dollars i guess to you guys and gals
(01:27 PM) Buffy_04364: it was that way in qcharts but no idea how they did it
(01:27 PM) Ensign Software: looking for ideas on how a scroll mode might have been activated or implemented in competing products.
(01:28 PM) Buffy_04364: we just clicked on symbol and the chart changed keeping the studies
(01:28 PM) Ensign Software: tell me more how qcharts worked in this area.   I can figure out an implementation if I get some clues
(01:28 PM) Buffy_04364: symbol was in quote sheet
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(01:28 PM) dbphoenix: Could it wait till after hours maybe?
(01:28 PM) Buffy_04364: private chat howard
(01:29 PM) Ensign Software: k, if you have ideas I will be in the Ensign room.
(01:29 PM) Daniel X: Jimbo i think ES was behind NQ i guess they adjusted it LOL
(01:30 PM) dbphoenix: Now back at LOD.  I confess I don't know what to make of this.  Let's fish or cut bait.
(01:31 PM) dbphoenix: I guess we need to retest 1170.
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(01:35 PM) jimbo_320: posted nq poss h+s chart
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(01:39 PM) ab_18: you do good work
(01:39 PM) jimbo_320: posted es chart
(01:39 PM) dbphoenix: At times like these, I try to remember what T said about trading being simple, and that if it's hard, you're probably doing something wrong.
(01:41 PM) ab_18: sp 1002 support
(01:42 PM) Buffy_04364: posted 3m
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(01:52 PM) wayne_53: Has everyone gone to sleep!
(01:52 PM) Buffy_04364: guess so
(01:52 PM) Buffy_04364: thought ghost room gain
(01:53 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(01:53 PM) Daniel X: im on the phone and im pissed ..
(01:54 PM) Buffy_04364: no what daniel
(01:54 PM) Buffy_04364: now
(01:54 PM) rich012: Both NQ and ES gonna try to touch down TL's soon.
(01:54 PM) Daniel X: nothing relevant to trading
(01:55 PM) Buffy_04364: oh ok glad to hear it
(01:55 PM) ab_18: Who ever gave us RSI 3,  tks
(01:55 PM) dbphoenix: Since we're still in a downtrend, I'm stalking the 5m upbars.
(01:55 PM) Orprepus: bman
(01:55 PM) ab_18: tks
(01:56 PM) Orprepus: gaves us rsi 3 - from Tom hall PP indicators
(01:57 PM) Buffy_04364: pyra
(01:57 PM) jimbo_320: 1005 is es neckline retracement
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(02:00 PM) dbphoenix: Apparently somebody drew a neckline on the NQ as well.
(02:01 PM) Orprepus: sp cash under 1000
(02:01 PM) wayne_53: anybody scalping here on ES
(02:02 PM) dbphoenix: And those DTLs coincided with the neckline.
(02:02 PM) MarkCA: i am, but loosing
(02:02 PM) Orprepus: was done for the day
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(02:02 PM) dbphoenix: That was a nice whump.
(02:03 PM) Buffy_04364: 2b on 3m
(02:03 PM) Buffy_04364: not yet confirmed on 5M
(02:03 PM) Daniel X: ok im free   PHEW!
(02:03 PM) Daniel X: yadda yadda yadda
(02:04 PM) MarkCA: Buffy 2B?  UTL was not broken on my charts.
(02:04 PM) Buffy_04364: can u post?
(02:05 PM) Buffy_04364: nq here
(02:05 PM) Buffy_04364: I will post what I see
(02:05 PM) MarkCA: 3m UTL from 11:45 and 13:15 highs not broken
(02:05 PM) Daniel X: i was on one of those listenning out of respect  phone calls ;-) we al get em im sure!
(02:06 PM) wayne_53: IB on 3m ES
(02:06 PM) dbphoenix: A line drawn across those highs would be pointed down.
(02:06 PM) rich012: DAniel, I usually ring my doorbell and tell them someone is at the door.
(02:07 PM) Daniel X: NQ entering RSI oversold
(02:07 PM) Buffy_04364: a 2b doesn not need a TL break
(02:07 PM) dave_b_quik: NQ5m 2B here?
(02:07 PM) Buffy_04364: only a 123
(02:07 PM) MarkCA: db yes, isn't that the UTL?
(02:07 PM) Daniel X: Train..careful shorts
(02:07 PM) dave_b_quik: UTL?
(02:07 PM) dbphoenix: No. If it's pointed down, it's a downtrendline.
(02:07 PM) dbphoenix: A UTL is an uptrendline.
(02:07 PM) Buffy_04364: posted 3m
(02:07 PM) Daniel X: thnx
(02:07 PM) Daniel X: Buf
(02:08 PM) Buffy_04364: now also confimed on 5m
(02:08 PM) MarkCA: ok, had them mixed up
(02:08 PM) Buffy_04364: easy to do mark
(02:08 PM) Buffy_04364: very easy
(02:08 PM) Tom_B: y, imo, 5m 2B...retro buy on bkout of prev 15m bar ?
(02:09 PM) dave_b_quik: y
(02:09 PM) Buffy_04364: tks dave
(02:09 PM) dbphoenix: As for the 2b, confirmation depends on what you're using to define failure: a tick above the high of the lowest bar, a tick above the last reaction high, a tick above an MA such as the 20 EMA, etc.
(02:09 PM) Tom_B: tnx
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(02:09 PM) Buffy_04364: 3 tics?
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(02:11 PM) Buffy_04364: correct me if I am wrong Dave please!
(02:12 PM) dbphoenix: The 123 would have to break the trendline first in order to start the sequence.  You can have a 2b without breaking the trendline, at least right away.
(02:12 PM) Buffy_04364: yes it does db
(02:12 PM) dave_b_quik: yes
(02:12 PM) Buffy_04364: true db
(02:12 PM) dave_b_quik: this one had no thrust though
(02:12 PM) jimbo_320: nice big consol under neckline- more chance of a big move
(02:13 PM) dbphoenix: I started to say that a 2b is more likely to turn into a 123 than vice-versa, but it really depends on the extent of the bounce.
(02:14 PM) dbphoenix: If the bounce is feeble, you could stay under that TL for quite a while, and you'd wind up breaking it by time rather than volatility, and breaking it through volatility is better.
(02:14 PM) wayne_53: But a 2b breaks the previos high/low whereas the 1-2-3 doesn't
(02:15 PM) dave_b_quik: y
(02:16 PM) dbphoenix: Yes, but you can break the last reaction high without breaking the TL.  It just depends on the setup.  A 123 can break the last reaction high while it breaks the TL as well, but the 123 is defined by breaking the TL.
(02:17 PM) Tom_B: plse use text, we do hear u
(02:17 PM) Daniel X: 123/2B/123/2B  back and forth
(02:18 PM) dbphoenix: And it's getting a litle late.
(02:18 PM) skyprince_1: 14 pt channel last hour with 5 pivots!  Is this futures trading??  Think I'll go back to stocks! 
(02:18 PM) Daniel X: LOL Prince
(02:18 PM) dbphoenix: <vbg>
(02:19 PM) dbphoenix: OTOH, we have 5 waves down, so . . .
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(02:20 PM) skyprince_1: OTOH?
(02:20 PM) dbphoenix: On the other hand
(02:20 PM) skyprince_1: On the other hand?
(02:20 PM) skyprince_1: Ok, thnks
(02:20 PM) Buffy_04364: lost paltalk for a minute anyone else see the beginning message?
(02:20 PM) dbphoenix: AFAIK: as far as I know
(02:21 PM) Daniel X: heads being handed out... make sure they give you back the right one!
(02:21 PM) dbphoenix: What time, Buffy?
(02:21 PM) Tom_B: retro long 1178.5 ?
(02:21 PM) dave_b_quik: y
(02:21 PM) Buffy_04364: 02:22 next at 02:24 EST
(02:21 PM) Buffy_04364: with message in between
(02:21 PM) Tom_B: k,tnx
(02:22 PM) dbphoenix: DTLs barely being broken.
(02:22 PM) Buffy_04364: lots more selling gong on today than yesterday according to the ticki
(02:23 PM) Tom_B: cnbc must be bullish :)
(02:23 PM) dbphoenix: Our clocks must be different.  I'm showing 02:21 right now  :0)
(02:23 PM) dbphoenix: EST, that is.
(02:24 PM) Orprepus: yes abby chonehead - says we have not seen low like this for two years - buy'em buy'em buy'em
(02:25 PM) skyprince_1: Sloppy double bottom, no triple, no quad...ad naseum...
(02:25 PM) Daniel X: i've never seen ES so wild
(02:25 PM) Orprepus: what  a dead fish
(02:25 PM) Daniel X: it's true though
(02:25 PM) dbphoenix: These moves are so grudging.  I guess there's a huge struggle going on, but it's not resulting in volatility.
(02:25 PM) Buffy_04364: you are right db need to adjust mine again
(02:26 PM) dbphoenix: Unless you're looking at it in hindsight, of course.  This could have been played with wide stops, but that's a quick way to go broke.
(02:26 PM) dbphoenix: Mine might be wrong, Buffy.  Don't go by me.  I set it by the market, but who knows what clock they follow.
(02:26 PM) Buffy_04364: posted new 3m
(02:27 PM) Daniel X: unless it's nice and orderly ..stay out
(02:27 PM) skyprince_1: Yeah, just loaded my "swing" boat with QQQ at $29...so I can fund my "futures" trading!  
(02:28 PM) Orprepus: bear flag formiing again?
(02:28 PM) Daniel X: comeon move
(02:28 PM) Buffy_04364: 3m tls6 
(02:28 PM) Tom_B: if we don't getinto that gap then....
(02:28 PM) Orprepus: wheres the train -
(02:28 PM) dbphoenix: We're moving above those 20ps again.
(02:28 PM) Tom_B: coming round the bend
(02:29 PM) Tom_B: 2b 15m
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(02:30 PM) Tom_B: cough, need some more fuel
(02:30 PM) dbphoenix: FWIW, I've been using the last reaction high/low and the 20p (preferably coincidental) as confirmation of a 2b.  Keeps me out of trouble, though I'm a bit farther away from the turn.
(02:31 PM) jimbo_320: 20p?
(02:32 PM) dbphoenix: 20 period EMA
(02:32 PM) dbphoenix: That gives me confirmation on the 1 and 3, but it's not carrying over into anything else, at least not yet.
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(02:33 PM) dbphoenix: Boy, PalTalk is really jazzed with these ads.
(02:33 PM) Tom_B: standing up in saddle
(02:33 PM) dbphoenix: 5m confirmed.
(02:33 PM) Buffy_04364: long on posted TL break of poke bar
(02:33 PM) dbphoenix: Now do we get a downbar . . . .
(02:33 PM) Buffy_04364: should do no more then test tl
(02:34 PM) dbphoenix: 1190's gonna be hell.
(02:34 PM) Buffy_04364: I will settle for a few pts
(02:34 PM) ab_18: es 1010  ditto
(02:35 PM) Buffy_04364: tsting it now
(02:35 PM) Buffy_04364: testing
(02:36 PM) dbphoenix: I don't much like playing this sort of setup.  I'd much rather go long on a retest of support after making a new high.  This just puts us back into congestion.  Guess I better make up my mind soon.
(02:36 PM) Buffy_04364: tout
(02:36 PM) Buffy_04364: our
(02:36 PM) Buffy_04364: out
(02:36 PM) Buffy_04364: should not have to test again
(02:36 PM) Buffy_04364: can reenter
(02:36 PM) Buffy_04364: not doing what it should
(02:37 PM) dbphoenix: I thnk I'll just watch.  I don't need to be doing this.
(02:38 PM) dbphoenix: It's great that 1170 is holding, though.
(02:39 PM) jimbo_320: was 1170 33% retrace?
(02:39 PM) dbphoenix: Yesterday's low
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(02:41 PM) dbphoenix: But it would be a 38% r also.  Interesting.
(02:41 PM) dbphoenix: doo doo doo doo
(02:42 PM) jimbo_320: maybe another leg up here
(02:42 PM) ppusa: yawn, good morning
(02:43 PM) dbphoenix: <vbg>
(02:43 PM) Tom_B: retro add trade at 1185 ?
(02:44 PM) Buffy_04364: that reminds me dave does retro add before stop is at a profit?
(02:44 PM) jimbo_320: gogogo
(02:44 PM) Tom_B: y
(02:44 PM) ppusa: if markets close well today, could take off tomorrow
(02:44 PM) ppusa: ififif
(02:45 PM) Tom_B: stp now 80 on both , i think
(02:45 PM) jimbo_320: 1010
(02:45 PM) dave_b_quik: it's not a rule, buffy, but i like to see some $ before adding
(02:45 PM) Buffy_04364: so add contract replaces where retro stop normally would be
(02:46 PM) ppusa: secret chart says break 1195 nq
(02:46 PM) ppusa: ???
(02:46 PM) Buffy_04364: cause wouldn't stop be off of inside bar still normally?
(02:46 PM) Buffy_04364: tks dave
(02:46 PM) jimbo_320: sold half for es +4
(02:46 PM) Tom_B: y , I think all stps get pulled t 5 pt 
(02:47 PM) Tom_B: Buffy ?
(02:47 PM) Buffy_04364: I don't know
(02:47 PM) Buffy_04364: waiting for dave to answer
(02:47 PM) Buffy_04364: keep forgetting to ask him and glad you reminded me
(02:48 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(02:48 PM) Buffy_04364: not defined in rules that I could find
(02:48 PM) Daniel X: dumped all es +4.25
(02:48 PM) Buffy_04364: or understand anyway  :-)
(02:48 PM) Tom_B: :>)
(02:48 PM) Tom_B: nice daniel
(02:48 PM) Daniel X: nice Train today!
(02:49 PM) ab_18: an amtrac
(02:49 PM) Daniel X: thnx
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(02:50 PM) Daniel X: the way ES was moving i thought it was going to explode
(02:51 PM) jimbo_320: so how does es trading compare to nq iyo?
(02:51 PM) Tom_B: y
(02:51 PM) Daniel X: up moves were on great volume
(02:51 PM) Tom_B: maybe just catching it's breath ?/
(02:51 PM) Buffy_04364: 1190 stopped nq for now
(02:52 PM) Daniel X: Jimbo it's smoother
(02:52 PM) Tom_B: retro add 1190 , if
(02:52 PM) Daniel X: i like it
(02:52 PM) jimbo_320: more predicatle trading signals?
(02:52 PM) Daniel X: yes
(02:52 PM) Daniel X: less volitile
(02:53 PM) jimbo_320: less scalpers
(02:53 PM) Daniel X: thats it
(02:53 PM) Daniel X: thnx
(02:53 PM) jimbo_320: people selling the buy signals (ppusa !)
(02:53 PM) jimbo_320: less people
(02:53 PM) ppusa: i would only add at 1190 if there were more of a retest of low
(02:53 PM) jimbo_320: lol
(02:54 PM) ppusa: jimbo after the runup
(02:55 PM) Daniel X: Jimbo ..although i can't trade it without watching NQ as a barometer
(02:55 PM) jimbo_320: lol
(02:56 PM) Daniel X: my entries are roughly around where i would enter on NQ..if that makes sense
(02:58 PM) Tom_B: ah , the 1180 itch
(02:59 PM) dbphoenix: The bulls just don't seem to have what it takes.
(02:59 PM) elly_34: the bears don't either
(02:59 PM) Daniel X: 5 min EMAs moving into missionary
(03:00 PM) ppusa: yet
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(03:00 PM) jimbo_320: gogogo
(03:00 PM) ppusa: look at ma's ... takes time to turn them from down to up
(03:01 PM) elly_34: we just crossed 20 ema on 15 min
(03:01 PM) Tom_B: retro add 1189.5, all stps 1185.5, imco
(03:02 PM) ppusa: bottom line yesterday and today is traders want to know whether there will be a retest of lows or straight up
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(03:03 PM) ppusa: when we (they) have that answer, market will move
(03:03 PM) Buffy_04364: dave is tom right? retro would add there? and not on swing low bar?
(03:03 PM) ppusa: secret chart hits 95 and you all are going to get the who's your daddy
(03:03 PM) dave_b_quik: my retro got stopped out on a minor 2B which turned out to be a fake, now long 1
(03:04 PM) Tom_B: great :(
(03:04 PM) ppusa: WHO'S YOUR DADDY WHO'S YOUR DADDY WHO'S YOUR DADDY WHO'S YOUR DADDY WHO'S YOUR DADDY 
(03:04 PM) Tom_B: i'm long 78.5, 85, 89.5 stps now 85.5
(03:04 PM) ppusa: HOT DAMN I'M GOOD
(03:04 PM) ppusa: OVERBOT HERE
(03:05 PM) ppusa: watch for roll over 
(03:05 PM) Tom_B: PPUSA, altitude getting to u up there in Tahoe ?
(03:05 PM) ppusa: maybre
(03:05 PM) dave_b_quik: nice going, Tom
(03:06 PM) ppusa: awh come on Tom, it was a good call
(03:06 PM) Tom_B: i thought i was following retro...don't know what i'm doing wrong on these ?
(03:06 PM) Daniel X: RSI in overbought NQ
(03:06 PM) Buffy_04364: yes it was ppusa
(03:07 PM) Tom_B: i'm sure rsi is ob ...
(03:07 PM) ppusa: back to the doldrums
(03:07 PM) ppusa: i don't like the sell signal i have on 25 point PnF
(03:08 PM) dbphoenix: FWIW, the problem I have with this is the potential reward, given the R at 1195.  I'd rather wait for this to be cleared and take a shot at the next level at 1217.
(03:08 PM) dbphoenix: By "this", I mean entry at this level.
(03:08 PM) Daniel X: ditto DB waiting for 1200 to go is a good move
(03:09 PM) ppusa: i know it won't effect your decisions and rightly so should not but thought i would mention it. Means probable retest of low still to come (1100 low)
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(03:11 PM) dbphoenix: Or we could be setting up a reverse H&S here.
(03:11 PM) Daniel X: this week?
(03:11 PM) Daniel X: seems likely
(03:12 PM) dbphoenix: So many patterns.  So little time.
(03:12 PM) dbphoenix: I did try to get in on that 2b, Daniel, but got stopped out at BE.  That would have been enough upside if I'd been able to stay in.
(03:13 PM) Daniel X: we're beginning to settle in and pick up where we left off in price action pre WTC attack...with the wild volitile up moves.
(03:14 PM) Daniel X: who knows?
(03:14 PM) Daniel X: lol
(03:14 PM) Daniel X: bottom forming characteristic
(03:14 PM) Daniel X: time?  why how old are you?
(03:14 PM) Daniel X: i cut  at 1 point loss and saved a few
(03:14 PM) ppusa: mini breakout
(03:14 PM) ppusa: dow is now +10
(03:14 PM) Daniel X: ES doing it's own thing!?
(03:15 PM) Daniel X: ?
(03:15 PM) Daniel X: +2
(03:15 PM) jimbo_320: out the rest for es +7
(03:15 PM) Daniel X: NAS 1500
(03:16 PM) jimbo_320: yeehaa
(03:16 PM) Daniel X: good Jimbo
(03:17 PM) Daniel X: you're getting good at this huh?
(03:19 PM) Daniel X: we still have not seen the huge boom 
(03:20 PM) ppusa: what boom?
(03:20 PM) Daniel X: ten point bar
(03:20 PM) Daniel X: up or down
(03:20 PM) ppusa: roll over nq
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(03:21 PM) Daniel X: this might be it
(03:21 PM) jimbo_320: nothing like a big up bar to bring out the sellers
(03:21 PM) elly_34: think we are staying in a consolidation day today
(03:21 PM) Daniel X: ditto
(03:21 PM) elly_34: after yesterday
(03:22 PM) elly_34: is retro class right after close ?
(03:22 PM) ppusa: the rally high of 1197 = setup for tomorrow's sell off
(03:22 PM) dbphoenix: 1200 is turning out to be pretty important.
(03:22 PM) Daniel X: initial claims on thursday
(03:23 PM) Daniel X: yes1200 = 1500
(03:24 PM) ppusa: what ?
(03:24 PM) dbphoenix: I'm surprised last Thursday's congestion would be such a barrier.
(03:24 PM) ppusa: u think 1500 before 1100
(03:24 PM) elly_34: hod today was an extended fib number up from the low on friday
(03:24 PM) Daniel X: no no 1200 NQ = 1500 Nas is why 1200 is important
(03:24 PM) Daniel X: talking to DB
(03:24 PM) ppusa: okay
(03:24 PM) dbphoenix: Volume was pretty high on Thursday.  I guess that's why.
(03:25 PM) dbphoenix: You're right about the Comp, tho.
(03:25 PM) ppusa: thought i might have to smack u up the side of the head
(03:26 PM) Daniel X: lets see if 1183 pivot NQ will hold
(03:26 PM) Daniel X: LOL
(03:26 PM) Daniel X: ha
(03:26 PM) Daniel X: roflmao
(03:26 PM) ppusa: haha
(03:26 PM) ppusa: took me a minute
(03:27 PM) Daniel X: no i was laughing at ur comment
(03:27 PM) ppusa: nq needed this pb to here...just wish i had been in it
(03:27 PM) ppusa: i know u were
(03:28 PM) dbphoenix: UTL broken.  Here we go again with smaller and smaller ranges.  Bleh!
(03:28 PM) ppusa: and i was deciphering your roloflamoa
(03:29 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(03:29 PM) ppusa: anyway nq needs retest
(03:29 PM) Tom_B: retro shrt 1186.5
(03:29 PM) ppusa: whether open down and come back up for outside up day or new lows, whatever
(03:29 PM) dbphoenix: Tsk, tsk, usa.  The glass is always half empty.
(03:30 PM) dbphoenix: Let us cast our eyes heavenward instead to a breakout through 1300.
(03:30 PM) ppusa: oh gee
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(03:31 PM) ppusa: okay that will work
(03:31 PM) ppusa: then pb from there
(03:31 PM) Daniel X: that would mean NAS 1600
(03:31 PM) ppusa: why not
(03:31 PM) dbphoenix: See?  You just needed a little inspirational pep talk.
(03:31 PM) ppusa: i need the money
(03:32 PM) dbphoenix: Nope.  No pullback.  You'll never have another chance to enter.  It's all up from here.
(03:32 PM) Daniel X: u?
(03:32 PM) Daniel X: need $
(03:32 PM) ppusa: forget the talk
(03:32 PM) dbphoenix: Getting punchy here.
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(03:32 PM) jimbo_320: thanks all, calling it a day. Bye
(03:32 PM) ppusa: nq could retrace to last week's high.
(03:32 PM) Daniel X: Jimbo ave a good one eh
(03:32 PM) ppusa: bye bimbo
(03:33 PM) ppusa: sorry jimbo
(03:33 PM) Daniel X: lol
(03:33 PM) Daniel X: ;-)
(03:33 PM) jimbo_320: watch it ppusa grrrr
(03:33 PM) ppusa: haha
(03:34 PM) ppusa: my nap
(03:34 PM) dbphoenix: We could still be setting up a reverse H&S.
(03:34 PM) ppusa: feeling kinda sparky after n
(03:34 PM) ppusa: i think the one very positive for a rally is if i am correct the record volume friday.
(03:34 PM) Daniel X: short cover?
(03:35 PM) elly_34: i think today has been constructive for more up tomorrow
(03:35 PM) dbphoenix: I doubt there would be any appreciable covering till 1300.  I suspect we're going to see a hell of a fight there.
(03:36 PM) dbphoenix: Generally speaking, I do too.  But I'd like to see us close a little higher.
(03:36 PM) Daniel X: small guys like us i meant though for the close
(03:36 PM) Daniel X: brb
(03:37 PM) dbphoenix: Maybe.  Depends on whether the institutions can drive it up.
(03:37 PM) dbphoenix: We're sort of running out of time here.
(03:37 PM) elly_34: well we tested the gap today on nq and held, indu has come 120 or so off the low
(03:37 PM) dbphoenix: In some ways, this is like watching a chess game.
(03:37 PM) elly_34: consolidation is not a bad thing after a day like yesterday
(03:37 PM) dbphoenix: I agree, elly.  1170 was important.
(03:38 PM) dbphoenix: Correct.
(03:39 PM) ppusa: Art Cashen on CNBC said he had never seen a market bottom on a friday
(03:39 PM) ppusa: in 20 years
(03:39 PM) dbphoenix: I wonder how things would have unfolded without the reports, whether we would have tested yesterday's high and wound up here or if we would have broken through?
(03:39 PM) ppusa: maybe due
(03:39 PM) Tom_B: There's a 1st time for evrything
(03:40 PM) Tom_B: mkt may only retrace to find more sellers..evn in 29, mkt had big retrace before going south
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(03:41 PM) dbphoenix: There will be a retest eventually, but I would have thought we'd get higher than this before we tried it.
(03:41 PM) dbphoenix: Nasdaq still has a valuation problem.
(03:42 PM) elly_34: i don't think we've seen the bottom yet
(03:42 PM) ppusa: yes and regardless we will take whatever we can get no matter
(03:42 PM) Daniel X: what r they saying now pe 5/1 acceptible?
(03:43 PM) dbphoenix: If we can't get pasta 1200, I'm not real optimistic about tomorrow.
(03:43 PM) elly_34: any significant earnings tonigth?
(03:43 PM) dbphoenix: Don't know, D.  But stocks were a lot cheaper in '98 in terms of PE.
(03:44 PM) Daniel X: initials thursday...big move
(03:44 PM) ppusa: hang on i will turn on CNBC
(03:44 PM) dbphoenix: At this point, tho, since growth estimates are more guesses than ever, and earnings estimates aren't any better, I don't know what sort of valuation model is being used.
(03:44 PM) Daniel X: giggle
(03:44 PM) ppusa: if nq goes through 95 area could run???
(03:45 PM) dbphoenix: That would be nice, but I don't know how far it can get in 15m.
(03:45 PM) Daniel X: far
(03:45 PM) Daniel X: 1/2 hour
(03:46 PM) dbphoenix: I've been doing this since '89, and I've never seen people working as blindly as they are now.
(03:46 PM) Daniel X: really?
(03:47 PM) elly_34: what do you mean by blindly?
(03:47 PM) dbphoenix: Yep.  And the companies themselves are no help at all.  They're scared to death to go out on a limb.  Can't blame them.
(03:47 PM) Daniel X: by "working" u mean waht?
(03:47 PM) dbphoenix: And with FD, they're even less likely to make projections unless they're solid.
(03:47 PM) Daniel X: investing?
(03:47 PM) dbphoenix: Yeah.
(03:47 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(03:47 PM) dbphoenix: I mean nobody has the slightest idea what earnings, revenues, profits margins, growth are going to be.
(03:49 PM) Daniel X: investors these days are much more infomed than in 89..what do u base ur findings on?
(03:49 PM) dbphoenix: And I doubt they know what cash flows are going to be, so what model can be used to value a stock?
(03:49 PM) Daniel X: u moh u mean the bottom pickers?
(03:49 PM) dbphoenix: If the companies have no idea what their earnings, revenues, or growth prospects are going to be, how can the analysts know?
(03:50 PM) Orprepus: they make it up like the compaines do - someone has to guess
(03:51 PM) Daniel X: of course they know...what r u kidding me?
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(03:51 PM) Tom_B: retro meeting 4:30 est ?
(03:51 PM) Tom_B: today ?
(03:51 PM) dbphoenix: And they do.  But there's no consensus.  That's why there's no direction.
(03:51 PM) Daniel X: le short cover!
(03:52 PM) elly_34: i say we have a direction and it is down
(03:52 PM) Daniel X: well direction was kept in pocket linnings of analysts
(03:53 PM) elly_34: seems the consensus is earnings are falling rapidly
(03:53 PM) Orprepus: been down for a while
(03:53 PM) ppusa: what the market is doing is anticipating a recovery
(03:54 PM) ppusa: if it doesn't materialize, nq down again
(03:54 PM) Tom_B: big gov't spending ?
(03:54 PM) Tom_B: inflation
(03:54 PM) elly_34: i think this bounce is just a natural reaction up after such a drop last week
(03:55 PM) ann_87: is there a  meeting today re: retro?
(03:55 PM) Daniel X: the US War Machine will give the economy a boost..sad but true
(03:55 PM) jhemm: someone said at 430 today
(03:56 PM) skyprince_1: The "invisible" war?  Hmmmm..we'll see.
(03:56 PM) jhemm: is that right?
(03:56 PM) Daniel X: really on what?
(03:56 PM) ann_87: Buffy had said there was i thought
(03:56 PM) ann_87: on retro
(03:57 PM) Tom_B: i thought 
(03:57 PM) Tom_B: today a review of today's action, tomorrow..money mgmt
(03:58 PM) ann_87: Tom didn't Buffy say that today was retro after close?
(03:58 PM) Tom_B: yes, just got pm from dbq...today
(03:58 PM) Tom_B: 4:30 est