Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
(09:07 AM) Gorillatrader: Good Morning everyone
(09:07 AM) Tom_B: gm
(09:07 AM) Buffy_04364: Good Morning GT
(09:07 AM) Buffy_04364: interesting class last night
(09:07 AM) Gorillatrader: yes it was
(09:07 AM) Buffy_04364: you going to do the trial?
(09:07 AM) beanman_1: morning GT
(09:07 AM) Gorillatrader: not for now
(09:07 AM) Gorillatrader: Hi beanman
(09:08 AM) Buffy_04364: All I can think of is the saying the "Holy Grail" is yourself
(09:08 AM) Buffy_04364: Hi Beanman
(09:08 AM) Buffy_04364: great chart you posted
(09:08 AM) Gorillatrader: haha, very true
(09:08 AM) beanman_1: thks
(09:08 AM) pete77_1: Morning all, If it hasn't already been mentioned, there is an interesting, somewhat sobering 30 min discussion on Teachtrade.com by Brad Sullivan re current and propective state of volatily, the trading pit, opinion on, how to trade during these conditions etc etc. The talk can be accessed still but RealPlayer is required.
(09:08 AM) Gorillatrader: thx pete
(09:08 AM) Gorillatrader: Who writes it, Allen?
(09:09 AM) beanman_1: pete, Is the discussion live or archived?
(09:09 AM) pete77_1: archived
(09:09 AM) Buffy_04364: If ok with you Beanman, Dave is going to pull the charts you have posted and add to pyra section
(09:09 AM) beanman_1: thks.. will listen to it later.. 
(09:10 AM) beanman_1: OK.. by me. fyi, looking at that chart.. you perhaps can use as filter for retro to stay ouf of chop and ony trade break of tos/bos
(09:10 AM) Gorillatrader: SUNW upgraded yesterday, CNBC it was downgraded today
(09:11 AM) Buffy_04364: yes beanman I do see great benefits to adding pyra to retro in fact I do use it
(09:11 AM) beanman_1: the big boys needed one last chance to dump....
(09:11 AM) Buffy_04364: that is the game they play GT
(09:11 AM) Buffy_04364: all the time
(09:11 AM) Gorillatrader: Surprised
(09:11 AM) Gorillatrader: lol
(09:11 AM) Buffy_04364: was it csco that had 3 changes in one week
(09:12 AM) Buffy_04364: nothing they do surprises me anymore LOL
(09:12 AM) Gorillatrader: pity those that listen to brokers and analysts for their investment decisions
(09:13 AM) beanman_1: Buffy, can you see the big square in the chart I posted?
(09:16 AM) Buffy_04364: yes
(09:17 AM) Buffy_04364: now that I can leave my machine on all the time with the charts pyra will be there
(09:17 AM) Buffy_04364: I really love looking at your charts - they help clarify 
(09:18 AM) Buffy_04364: about to page 50 in the book and so far so good
(09:18 AM) beanman_1: the bigger picture square has the red line running through it.. below the 45 is bearish in the bigger picture...
(09:18 AM) Gorillatrader: Pyra one of my next projects
(09:19 AM) Buffy_04364: you won't regret the time you put into it GT
(09:19 AM) beanman_1: but within the big square ther are smaller tradeable squares...
(09:21 AM) Buffy_04364: yes and I really get that now 
(09:21 AM) Buffy_04364: finally :-)
(09:21 AM) beanman_1: Pyra works well with the ticki alerts... +-22 extremes are at pyra top and bottom of squares
(09:21 AM) Buffy_04364: works well with Mikes indicators too
(09:21 AM) beanman_1: been running those alerts for about a week
(09:22 AM) Buffy_04364: wish there was something like it for the nq
(09:23 AM) Buffy_04364: Will have to look at them with pyra
(09:23 AM) Buffy_04364: RETRO DISCUSSION AT 4:15
(09:24 AM) tomsurf: Buffy- do you per chance have the text of yesterday's Ensign class?
(09:24 AM) Buffy_04364: yes I do but the typing isn't so great - Howard is going to have Barry fill in the holes and then he will post with all other classes at EW website
(09:24 AM) Buffy_04364: but if you want it still can send
(09:25 AM) Buffy_04364: just send me email requesting it and will attach and send back
(09:25 AM) tang: gm all
(09:25 AM) tomsurf: OK, thank you :-)
(09:25 AM) Buffy_04364: M tang
(09:25 AM) tang: hi
(09:26 AM) Dirk-X: Be aware today of the larger TF 1-2-3 / 2b reversal pattern potentially forming on the NQ
(09:26 AM) Buffy_04364: tks dirk
(09:27 AM) ppusa: where is the first B?
(09:27 AM) Buffy_04364: dirk has chart posted of this
(09:27 AM) beanman_1: rt now it looks as it it will gap down to that...
(09:27 AM) gravestonedoggie: on that score, dow and sp have already fallen to new lows on similar tf
(09:27 AM) thoff: good morning everyone :)
(09:27 AM) gravestonedoggie: so they also ahve possible 2b
(09:27 AM) Dirk-X: Yesterday's consolidation broke 3-day trendline...and the rally of last week broke this month's down-trend line
(09:27 AM) Dirk-X: both shorter and longer patterns are critical code red today
(09:29 AM) Dirk-X: If, somehow, we rally to above 1515, may really rocket up from there
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(09:30 AM) Buffy_04364: morning thoff
(09:31 AM) Buffy_04364: seems we have been walking a line for a while and are running out of room  :-)
(09:31 AM) beanman_1: Dirk... Would not count on it..accorting to COT report... Commercials increased their net short positions last week....
(09:31 AM) Buffy_04364: the casino is open :-)
(09:33 AM) Dirk-X: Just if-then's, B, not predictions
(09:35 AM) thoff: hi buffy
(09:36 AM) Gorillatrader: Insert Coin, Pull Lever...let it spin
(09:37 AM) Daniel X: lol
(09:37 AM) gravestonedoggie: dow getting close to 10k
(09:37 AM) gravestonedoggie: nobody wants sunw, emc, csco, etc any more
(09:38 AM) gravestonedoggie: it's lonely at the bottom
(09:38 AM) gravestonedoggie: as tehy say
(09:38 AM) jimbo_320: hello
(09:38 AM) Buffy_04364: Hi Jimbo
(09:39 AM) Buffy_04364: retro discussion at 4:15
(09:39 AM) gravestonedoggie: jimbo
(09:39 AM) tang: today
(09:39 AM) Gorillatrader: Any significance that "Michael Jackson rang the opening Bell?"
(09:39 AM) Buffy_04364: yes
(09:39 AM) tang: ok
(09:39 AM) Buffy_04364: 30 yr something GT
(09:39 AM) jimbo_320: gsd,buffy bonjour#
(09:39 AM) Buffy_04364: didn't catch it all
(09:39 AM) Gorillatrader: did he sing the woes?
(09:39 AM) Buffy_04364: bonjour
(09:39 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(09:40 AM) Buffy_04364: SRL = stress reduction laugh
(09:40 AM) Buffy_04364: well not really too early  :-)
(09:41 AM) ppusa: wants to bounce?
(09:41 AM) gravestonedoggie: think today might be a day for the 1st (or 2nd?) bar breakout play
(09:41 AM) Buffy_04364: to short?
(09:41 AM) ppusa: cat
(09:41 AM) Daniel X: let it bounce
(09:42 AM) ppusa: i would think short somewhere
(09:42 AM) cheetah55: Jackson sang----"Beat it"
(09:43 AM) Daniel X:  1 min sideways is not a good sigh for oportunities
(09:43 AM) Daniel X: sign
(09:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: so maybe panic time?
(09:43 AM) cheetah55: Beat it, Beat, sell the nasdaq and beat it
(09:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(09:43 AM) ppusa: high is 81 intraday 6 tick take that out but then
(09:44 AM) gravestonedoggie: nyse ticks show little sell pressure.. but they have been srange last few days
(09:44 AM) Daniel X: not shorting under the EMAs just yet
(09:45 AM) Buffy_04364: has anyone added all sessions to the 15M and taken a look?
(09:45 AM) gravestonedoggie: in fact ticks act like this is a strong up day
(09:45 AM) Buffy_04364: makes retro a little clearer for me
(09:45 AM) gravestonedoggie: weird
(09:45 AM) Buffy_04364: maybe fill the gap
(09:45 AM) ppusa: full 15 chart i have one
(09:45 AM) Buffy_04364: ?
(09:46 AM) ppusa: PnF still looking for 30 point reversal 
(09:46 AM) Daniel X: Buffy no comprende
(09:46 AM) Daniel X: ?
(09:46 AM) Buffy_04364: what retro should do with that first bar seems clearer doesn't it ppusa
(09:46 AM) tomsurf: gsd- agree w/ticks.....have been no good pushes down
(09:46 AM) Buffy_04364: uncheck day only on the 15M
(09:46 AM) Dirk-X: In the interests if the Retro project...try to be thinking about what should signal too much chop for retro to make this first entry
(09:47 AM) Buffy_04364: that is what it helps clarify dirk
(09:47 AM) gravestonedoggie: yeah.. not the dreaded chopmeister again
(09:47 AM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(09:47 AM) tomsurf: Dirk- good point
(09:47 AM) ppusa: but i realize (in hindsight) trading lower channel, couldn't get above middle. will post
(09:47 AM) Tom_B: cud be exhaustion here
(09:48 AM) gravestonedoggie: i know i'm tired
(09:48 AM) ppusa: i give it some time tom
(09:48 AM) Tom_B: :)
(09:48 AM) ppusa: we are way below some ma's
(09:48 AM) ppusa: i bot and just got out
(09:48 AM) Tom_B: held my #'s here today gone to Maui..
(09:48 AM) ppusa: but still below ma's
(09:49 AM) gravestonedoggie: though i'm so tired.. i'll have another drink
(09:49 AM) beanman_1: ticki extreme..
(09:49 AM) gravestonedoggie: ob tiki, i assume
(09:49 AM) Daniel X: 1458 pivot support 1 so now res
(09:50 AM) Daniel X: 1485
(09:50 AM) Daniel X: sorry
(09:50 AM) tomsurf: beanman- is the ticki the DOW?
(09:50 AM) Buffy_04364: tks beanman
(09:50 AM) Buffy_04364: yes
(09:50 AM) beanman_1: yes , net tick of dow 30
(09:50 AM) Tom_B: 1150.5 first res es, if we get ovr there1153.5 nxt...nq 1492.5  then 1505.5 to get going...,imvho
(09:50 AM) tomsurf: gotcha, thx
(09:51 AM) Daniel X: any long takers?
(09:51 AM) ppusa: check out the chart i am posting. maybe someone knows where to short of this better than me but it has nailed this decline.
(09:51 AM) Daniel X: besides Retro
(09:51 AM) dave_b_quick: :>)
(09:52 AM) Daniel X: lol Dave
(09:52 AM) Tom_B: me
(09:52 AM) Daniel X: good
(09:52 AM) Tom_B: this has some room to stretch
(09:52 AM) Dirk-X: took it, but computer started to freak out, so exitted +4.5 and sweating
(09:53 AM) jimbo_320: surely not another bounce of 1475, this is getting TOO predicable
(09:53 AM) dave_b_quick: you got yr lunch money at least, dirk
(09:53 AM) gravestonedoggie: nq right at yest low
(09:54 AM) gravestonedoggie: es took out yest low
(09:54 AM) Buffy_04364: where retro stop dave?
(09:54 AM) Tom_B: out
(09:54 AM) Daniel X: Tom why?
(09:54 AM) gravestonedoggie: dow plus
(09:55 AM) Dirk-X: No..I'm really hungry today..thinking gourmet
(09:55 AM) dave_b_quick: retro doesn't have a rule for move stop to BE, but i moved my stop under the 1m swing low
(09:55 AM) dave_b_quick: 1484
(09:55 AM) Buffy_04364: good idea - to be discussed tonight?
(09:56 AM) Tom_B: bot it bk
(09:56 AM) Daniel X: trust in Retro
(09:56 AM) dave_b_quick: will add to agenda
(09:56 AM) Buffy_04364: filling the gap
(09:56 AM) Buffy_04364: now what
(09:56 AM) tomsurf: dave- was thinking about that after X amount of points...
(09:56 AM) gravestonedoggie: huge plus tick reading
(09:56 AM) Buffy_04364: I bet for this move
(09:57 AM) Buffy_04364: tks
(09:57 AM) dave_b_quick: ya, i like to use logical stops whenever i can tho, rather than just pick a number
(09:57 AM) tomsurf: shorts on the run, lol
(09:57 AM) Daniel X: the 20 point stall
(09:57 AM) Buffy_04364: swing low 1M or 2M sounds good
(09:57 AM) Tom_B: 1158.25 50 nxt stp es & 1505.5 nq
(09:58 AM) ppusa: yesterday's high was 454. concievable to get to near that?
(09:58 AM) ppusa: high 45
(09:58 AM) ppusa: obot a bit yes?
(09:58 AM) gravestonedoggie: ticks still up around 900
(09:59 AM) Buffy_04364: tks
(09:59 AM) cctraderx: trin is high
(09:59 AM) Tom_B: must catch breath...
(09:59 AM) Buffy_04364: out here
(09:59 AM) jimbo_320: i am going to have to get here earlier, missed todays move up
(09:59 AM) Buffy_04364: should take a breather and will play retracement
(09:59 AM) tang: good buffy
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(10:00 AM) Buffy_04364: tks
(10:00 AM) Buffy_04364: call me chicken
(10:00 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(10:00 AM) ppusa: 25 point PnF reversed
(10:00 AM) dave_b_quick: LOL jimbo, early bird gets worm
(10:00 AM) Dirk-X: watch for 2b top here...if happens, could be big right back at lows in no time
(10:00 AM) Tom_B: hit 5m 35ema a favorite spot for res
(10:00 AM) ppusa: could use a 30 too
(10:00 AM) tang: no.  that better than me doing nothing
(10:01 AM) Daniel X: pock pock
(10:01 AM) Buffy_04364: not if you are in doubt about what to do tang
(10:01 AM) jimbo_320: same as yesterday, the range is in for the day so take the rest off.
(10:01 AM) Tom_B: tune up the guitar :)
(10:01 AM) Buffy_04364: sure did indicate chop yesterday
(10:01 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(10:01 AM) Buffy_04364: nice tom
(10:02 AM) Buffy_04364: for the newcomers - retro discussion at 4:15
(10:02 AM) Dirk-X: nifty, Buff
(10:02 AM) Gorillatrader: great
(10:02 AM) ppusa: i would think new high for 1-2-3 then?
(10:02 AM) Buffy_04364: new high makes it a 2B test makes it 123
(10:03 AM) Buffy_04364: ?
(10:03 AM) Buffy_04364: IMO
(10:03 AM) ppusa: makes a 1-2-3 for today
(10:03 AM) ppusa: what are you saying?
(10:03 AM) Buffy_04364: 123 can turn into 2B that is all
(10:04 AM) Buffy_04364: not trying to be difficult  
(10:04 AM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(10:04 AM) ppusa: :-)
(10:04 AM) Tom_B: ot - o
(10:05 AM) ppusa: so then maybe we won't get 1-2-3 though - retest lows
(10:05 AM) Tom_B: 1150.5 es supp
(10:05 AM) beanman_1: buffy, fyi, es hit the red line on the 16min and reversed..
(10:05 AM) Dirk-X: I will trade short if reversal pattern...and long only after over 1515
(10:06 AM) tang: may be ib
(10:06 AM) gravestonedoggie: minxy market
(10:07 AM) ppusa: that high of 1500 was right at the upper end of the lower channel on the chart i posted
(10:07 AM) Daniel X: the size of the 5 min bars indicate to me that a few of big players are controlling this
(10:07 AM) Buffy_04364: tks beanman
(10:08 AM) Tom_B: vol was lower on the last 5m dwn bar
(10:08 AM) Buffy_04364: adjusted my 4M
(10:09 AM) Dirk-X: short
(10:10 AM) gravestonedoggie: sp bulls trapped
(10:10 AM) gravestonedoggie: gap players etc
(10:11 AM) gravestonedoggie: that was one out of the old bull playbook
(10:11 AM) Buffy_04364: so Dave how did retro do?
(10:11 AM) Dirk-X: out
(10:11 AM) Buffy_04364: wasn't off by much beanman
(10:11 AM) ppusa: just hit open and bounced
(10:11 AM) Buffy_04364: so did a pretty good job
(10:11 AM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(10:12 AM) gravestonedoggie: too bad we lost the barf emoticon
(10:12 AM) gravestonedoggie: nq did not dump as bad here
(10:13 AM) Tom_B: long
(10:13 AM) Daniel X: 1485 pivot sup
(10:13 AM) Buffy_04364: not yet here
(10:14 AM) Buffy_04364: tks daniel
(10:14 AM) gravestonedoggie: so, nq did not take out low on 135 min chart yet, correct?
(10:14 AM) Dirk-X: lower high = imminent new test of lows
(10:14 AM) Tom_B: just my pers kamikaze trades...i won't ment anymore ..tey're really not relevant  here
(10:15 AM) Gorillatrader: 120min low at 1470, not yet
(10:15 AM) ppusa: yes nq's got to go for low
(10:15 AM) ppusa: but afterwards?
(10:16 AM) gravestonedoggie: thnx
(10:16 AM) Gorillatrader: that low was on 8/22
(10:16 AM) gravestonedoggie: sp lod
(10:17 AM) Buffy_04364: tks GT
(10:17 AM) gravestonedoggie: so es is in 2b area for today as well oagainst the opening low
(10:18 AM) gravestonedoggie: nq so far fails to confirm sp low
(10:18 AM) Daniel X: Labor vacations has begun...offices reporting skeleton staff
(10:19 AM) gravestonedoggie: both intraday and on 120m
(10:19 AM) Gorillatrader: agree, GSD
(10:20 AM) jimbo_320: if we sink lower today, i am going to fill up on stocks, after all next week is another week :-)
(10:20 AM) cctraderx: :-)
(10:20 AM) gravestonedoggie: adx is trendless in 5 min tf, but not in longer timeframes
(10:21 AM) Gorillatrader: Schwab offering permanent vacations to more staff
(10:21 AM) jimbo_320: what is the news on sunw off 15%
(10:21 AM) Gorillatrader: downgraded
(10:21 AM) cctraderx: end up w loss for qtr - sunw
(10:22 AM) Gorillatrader: upgraded yesterday to allow big trading desks to short the buying providing upticks
(10:22 AM) cctraderx: yep
(10:22 AM) jimbo_320: upgraded then downgraded?
(10:22 AM) Gorillatrader: oops. that's cynical
(10:22 AM) cctraderx: but true
(10:22 AM) mike_pa_1: new to room   anyone trade today
(10:23 AM) cctraderx: definitely downgraded, since sunw admits to possible loss for qtr
(10:23 AM) Daniel X: time to call in Retro's bro Scalptro
(10:23 AM) dave_b_quick: ya
(10:23 AM) cctraderx: LOL
(10:23 AM) Gorillatrader: lol
(10:23 AM) Dirk-X: long
(10:23 AM) Gorillatrader: I called it Retro Jr., son of Retro Sr.
(10:23 AM) Tom_B: is this 1-2-3 devel on 5 min
(10:24 AM) ppusa: i missed the short because i thought the high might get taken out by a few points to reverse 30 point PnF then sell off. Didn't happen but the 30 point PnF is still due for a reversal. I would think only after a new low but a new high now after this retest may run a bit. 
(10:24 AM) Gorillatrader: older and wiser than scalper son
(10:24 AM) Gorillatrader: subjective call there
(10:24 AM) gravestonedoggie: maybe Getno
(10:25 AM) cctraderx: LOL
(10:25 AM) gravestonedoggie: theme song could be 'i cant getno satisfaction'
(10:25 AM) dave_b_quick: i was on the phone, only snagged 10 NQ on the way to gap fillage after a retro entry and freestyle exit
(10:25 AM) ppusa: back to ma's
(10:25 AM) gravestonedoggie: freestyle??
(10:25 AM) gravestonedoggie: leme ammend the rules
(10:25 AM) Gorillatrader: freestyle wrestling?
(10:26 AM) trader139: wipe out the shorts, wipe out the longs, now we go up!
(10:26 AM) gravestonedoggie: lol
(10:26 AM) Dirk-X: out +3
(10:26 AM) gravestonedoggie: lemme
(10:26 AM) tomsurf: dave- I like that "freestyle" LOL
(10:26 AM) dave_b_quick: set my SL off the 1m instead of retro rule
(10:26 AM) gravestonedoggie: knew we missed something in those rules
(10:26 AM) gravestonedoggie: if there is a free style, a butterfly, too?
(10:27 AM) Dirk-X: I too enjoy kicking it freestyle on occassion, Mr. Quick..Bravo, I salute you
(10:27 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe.. think almost everyone is freestyling it
(10:27 AM) gravestonedoggie: that's why we needed retro in 1st palce
(10:28 AM) Gorillatrader: defeats purpose of a Trading Plan
(10:28 AM) dave_b_quick: ya, i'll go on the wagon and it won't happen again
(10:28 AM) ppusa: turning down
(10:28 AM) Gorillatrader: hehe
(10:28 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:28 AM) gravestonedoggie: retro wagon
(10:29 AM) Gorillatrader: pulling Dave's chain...mighty creator of Retro rules
(10:29 AM) gravestonedoggie: ya
(10:29 AM) jimbo_320: so what are the rules for scalptro ?
(10:29 AM) dave_b_quick: i was talking to CJ about ideas for new retro rules for range trading
(10:29 AM) Dirk-X: be on alert for chop here
(10:29 AM) gravestonedoggie: good, dave
(10:30 AM) Daniel X: Retro..his bro Scalptro and their sister Freetro
(10:30 AM) dave_b_quick: open to suggestions, jimbo
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(10:30 AM) gravestonedoggie: freeto
(10:30 AM) gravestonedoggie: freeos
(10:30 AM) gravestonedoggie: freetos
(10:30 AM) gravestonedoggie: bet you cant take just one
(10:30 AM) Dirk-X: up bar broke 5 min downtrend
(10:30 AM) tomsurf: CJ, is very sharp in  range-ola
(10:30 AM) trader139: tickios
(10:31 AM) Dirk-X: watch for 1-2-3...1-2b-3
(10:31 AM) Dirk-X: TOM, what did CJ say about range-ola
(10:31 AM) jimbo_320: a new family is born, retro (big papa, freetro, big mamma and scaptro little brother)
(10:31 AM) dave_b_quick: ya, CJ da man for scalps
(10:32 AM) Gorillatrader: ideas always welcome
(10:32 AM) beanman_1: what about rutro
(10:32 AM) Dirk-X: oh, forget it..I see
(10:32 AM) Dirk-X: yes that is the new frontier for Retro, no doubt
(10:33 AM) gravestonedoggie: rutro?
(10:33 AM) tomsurf: Dirk- don't know, I just know that he can really slice and dice it. So would be interested if he gave dave some ideas
(10:33 AM) gravestonedoggie: maybe range guy should be called schizo
(10:34 AM) Gorillatrader: range trading is not easy
(10:34 AM) gravestonedoggie: aka charity
(10:35 AM) Gorillatrader: aka, making payment's for your Broker's new Prosche
(10:35 AM) Gorillatrader: Porsche
(10:35 AM) gravestonedoggie: yeah
(10:35 AM) Gorillatrader: or, Ferrari 360
(10:36 AM) dave_b_quick: i'm paper trading the QQQuest options swingtrader, retro's big sister, now long 60 QQQ Sept 37 puts from .85 (last 1.65)
(10:37 AM) Gorillatrader: nice Dave
(10:37 AM) gravestonedoggie: options retro has to be a stud... call him hetro
(10:37 AM) Daniel X: hhmmmm Optro
(10:37 AM) Dirk-X: I expect it will be very difficult for retro system to profit from tight ranges...I think we just need a systematic way to avoid piling up 5pt losses by rejecting entry signals 
(10:37 AM) ppusa: nq is holding rather nice
(10:38 AM) gravestonedoggie: (roses thrown on stage)
(10:38 AM) tomsurf: Dirk- agree
(10:38 AM) cheetah55: kum-by-aaa
(10:38 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:38 AM) dave_b_quick: good point dirk
(10:38 AM) ppusa: stand by me
(10:38 AM) tomsurf: get down jimbo :-)
(10:38 AM) ppusa: no i won/t
(10:38 AM) ppusa: be afraid
(10:38 AM) gravestonedoggie: yeah!!!!!
(10:38 AM) ppusa: no i won;t be
(10:39 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:39 AM) ppusa: can't type fast enough
(10:39 AM) gravestonedoggie: when, the bear
(10:39 AM) gravestonedoggie: is black..
(10:39 AM) gravestonedoggie: no .. i wont
(10:39 AM) Dirk-X: Nice Jimbo
(10:39 AM) cctraderx: LOL
(10:39 AM) gravestonedoggie: be afraid
(10:39 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:39 AM) Gorillatrader: WHo plays the Drums?
(10:40 AM) ppusa: mickey jackson ain't got nothing on you. You can open the nas next week
(10:40 AM) gravestonedoggie: (groupie rushes the stage)
(10:40 AM) tomsurf: and the crowd lights up their matches
(10:40 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:40 AM) gravestonedoggie: (singer raises gloved hand)
(10:40 AM) Tom_B: matches tossed at stage
(10:41 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:41 AM) gravestonedoggie: shark on 1 min
(10:41 AM) gravestonedoggie: triangle apex
(10:41 AM) trader139: do u know purple haze
(10:41 AM) tomsurf: gsd- great term
(10:41 AM) Dirk-X: Like now, for instance...Retro should stand aside until triangle is broken and retested and maybe more
(10:41 AM) Dirk-X: stage on fire!
(10:41 AM) Dirk-X: FIRE!
(10:41 AM) Dirk-X: (stampede)
(10:41 AM) Dirk-X: etc...
(10:42 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:42 AM) gunner-: big crowd here  :)
(10:43 AM) tomsurf: hey gunner :-)
(10:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: live entertainment gunner
(10:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: is the draw
(10:43 AM) Dirk-X: drink specials too
(10:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(10:43 AM) tomsurf: lol
(10:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: not a trading room anymore
(10:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: something much better
(10:43 AM) gravestonedoggie: trading is last year's battle
(10:44 AM) jimbo_320: not worth trading today anyway
(10:44 AM) Gorillatrader: drinks at 50 cents for Happy Hour. Happy Hours started at 09:30 ET
(10:44 AM) gravestonedoggie: retro and family trades for us
(10:44 AM) gravestonedoggie: while we jam
(10:45 AM) gravestonedoggie: trinalge bust
(10:46 AM) gunner-: jimbo    is if you start at 7 am
(10:46 AM) trader139: hey hey hey, thats what i say i cant get no oh oh oh 
(10:47 AM) jimbo_320: thats ok i start at 2.30pm, finish at 4.00 by the looks of it today
(10:48 AM) ppusa: EW has a support and resistance tooll that can be applied to an intraday bar. Shows support 2nd today at1460 area when applied to first hour bar. 
(10:49 AM) ppusa: i'll follow it a bit and see it it works well
(10:50 AM) trader139: they took jimbos mic away
(10:52 AM) jimbo_320: it must of been the whistling :-)
(10:53 AM) Dirk-X: hope to see retracement and retest of triangle are, and then down
(10:53 AM) Limit1x: gunner, are you short?
(10:54 AM) Buffy_04364: Hi gunner
(10:56 AM) gravestonedoggie: dow 10015
(10:57 AM) trader139: anyone finding ticki +/- 22 useful? i cant get a chart.
(10:57 AM) Harry 111: If Dow gives up 10000,  9935 won't br far behind
(10:58 AM) gravestonedoggie: you will occasionaly see tiki in = or - 27 to 30 range
Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
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(11:00 AM) ppusa: nice 1-2-3 here
(11:01 AM) jimmer49: What is limit down?
(11:01 AM) ppusa: 85 nq
(11:02 AM) jimmer49: tks
(11:02 AM) cctraderx: dow 10k gone
(11:02 AM) jimbo_320: out es +4
(11:03 AM) Limit1x: I thought you might be :-)
(11:03 AM) mike_okc: around -85 or so on NQ
(11:03 AM) mike_okc: I think.
(11:04 AM) gravestonedoggie: bounce began right around dow 10k
(11:04 AM) tomsurf: ES - 60  NQ -90
(11:04 AM) tomsurf: 1419.5 = LD NQ
(11:05 AM) elly_34: good morning
(11:05 AM) gunner-: limit  I posted it at T alkStox earlier,,
(11:05 AM) amer_68: Hey limit, gunner: Nice "seeing" you guys again. : - )
(11:06 AM) tomsurf: 1463ish is also S2
(11:06 AM) jimbo_320: what happens at LD, does trading stop?
(11:06 AM) gunner-: amer    U missing and missed from new "coffee Shop"  
(11:06 AM) Limit1x: hi amer , good to see you again, how have things been?
(11:07 AM) mike_okc: For ten minutes it can't go lower.
(11:07 AM) mike_okc: But it can trade at LD or higher.
(11:07 AM) gravestonedoggie: nq had weakest bounce
(11:08 AM) jimbo_320: then it can go lower after 10 mins
(11:08 AM) mike_okc: yes
(11:08 AM) beanman_1: mike..when the nq is limit down.. it can open lower OR higher
(11:08 AM) mike_okc: After 10M
(11:08 AM) jimbo_320: can u see that happening today mike?
(11:09 AM) Gorillatrader: doesn't "open", it can trade higher at any time
(11:09 AM) mike_okc: I ahve been dding short positions all AM on each 89T retracement.
(11:09 AM) gunner-: Gorilla   correct
(11:09 AM) mike_okc: GT :)
(11:09 AM) mike_okc: It still can trade.
(11:09 AM) Gorillatrader: hi Mike
(11:09 AM) mike_okc: Just becasue it is LD, doesn't mean it cannot trade.
(11:09 AM) jimbo_320: how is it calculated ?
(11:10 AM) amer_68: Found this room thru Ensign. Learned how to slow down with longer time frames. Good guys here just as in the coffee shop. Still hanging onto paper trading but poised to jump back in, in about a week or so.
(11:10 AM) Gorillatrader: I've closed a short on limit down
(11:10 AM) mike_okc: Exchamge sets the values.
(11:10 AM) Limit1x: IBM trying to break 100
(11:10 AM) Buffy_04364: thanks beanman so very much
(11:10 AM) jimbo_320: what is it based on
(11:10 AM) elly_34: can anyone update me on retro if time?
(11:11 AM) dave_b_quick: retro is short from 1475.50, SL 1473.50
(11:11 AM) Buffy_04364: tks dave
(11:11 AM) mike_okc: Gunner, I am going to join you in retirement.
(11:11 AM) mike_okc: Just not a fisherman.
(11:11 AM) elly_34: ty and others trades previous?
(11:12 AM) dave_b_quick: +10, -5
(11:12 AM) jimbo_320: comp 1790
(11:12 AM) Buffy_04364: thought these type of trade weren't suppose to happen until everyone came back from holiday :-)
(11:12 AM) Buffy_04364: not complaining  LOL
(11:12 AM) elly_34: retro RULES
(11:12 AM) mike_okc: diabolical eh?
(11:12 AM) Buffy_04364: RETRO MEETING AT 4.15
(11:13 AM) elly_34: today yes?
(11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: YES mike
(11:13 AM) elly_34: gooooooooooody
(11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: yes elly
(11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: today
(11:13 AM) Gorillatrader: big move
(11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: yes it sure is
(11:13 AM) Buffy_04364: not going to look nice on daily
(11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: we went through another square beanman
(11:14 AM) mike_okc: No, but it looks like how it should look.
(11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL yep
(11:14 AM) Gorillatrader: looks nice to me...lol
(11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(11:14 AM) beanman_1: rt. buffy... many more new entry pts as the square are broken...
(11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: sure does to me too
(11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: yep
(11:14 AM) jimbo_320: csco 15.9
(11:14 AM) ppusa: if the nas goes much lower i will be able to buy the whole market
(11:14 AM) Buffy_04364: really getting to like that pyra
(11:15 AM) Buffy_04364: a lot
(11:15 AM) jimbo_320: sunw off 20% to 10.7
(11:15 AM) Gorillatrader: look at that SOX
(11:15 AM) beanman_1: buffy... remember.. after down 3-4squares quickly.. will probably consolidate sideways back to main 45
(11:15 AM) Gorillatrader: nice if they had futures on that SOX
(11:15 AM) mike_okc: ES 107% day's range.
(11:15 AM) Buffy_04364: yes has to catch up to time
(11:15 AM) Buffy_04364: right?
(11:15 AM) beanman_1: right
(11:15 AM) mike_okc: NQ 88%
(11:16 AM) Buffy_04364: tks mike
(11:16 AM) beanman_1: but notice when price moves.. it does quicly.
(11:16 AM) mike_okc: I am taking everything off here and calling it a day.
(11:16 AM) Buffy_04364: beanman do you add contracts at all those signaled entries
(11:16 AM) Buffy_04364: out
(11:16 AM) jimbo_320: GT there is a stock SMH i think
(11:16 AM) Buffy_04364: yahoo I agreed with Mike
(11:16 AM) beanman_1: In the pyra book, he uses them to add...
(11:16 AM) Dirk-X: Yes, thanks Mike!
(11:16 AM) Gorillatrader: you can afford it after that big trade, Mike
(11:17 AM) mike_okc: GT Did both ES and NQ
(11:17 AM) Gorillatrader: I know jimbo, not the same thou
(11:17 AM) Buffy_04364: nice mike
(11:17 AM) mike_okc: Best day in 3 weeks.
(11:17 AM) Gorillatrader: Whoa, I didn't do both. I should thou
(11:17 AM) mike_okc: Now if I can just do next week  lol
(11:17 AM) Buffy_04364: may there be many more
(11:17 AM) Buffy_04364: me too GT
(11:17 AM) jimbo_320: 536 last sox low now 553
(11:17 AM) Gorillatrader: I like the DJ but have not traded them yet
(11:17 AM) amer_68: Best day paper trading of my life.
(11:18 AM) Buffy_04364: great amer
(11:18 AM) Gorillatrader: stopped out
(11:18 AM) LB20: http://www.cme.com/market/riskman/pricelmt.html
(11:18 AM) amer_68: Tks. Buffy.
(11:18 AM) LB20: just in case anyone wants to check the limit down numbers
(11:18 AM) Buffy_04364: tks lb
(11:18 AM) Gorillatrader: NQ is 90; ES 60 the 5% Limit
(11:19 AM) LB20: yes, GT
(11:19 AM) LB20: good page to have bookmarked for reference
(11:19 AM) Gorillatrader: they should have those on up days too
(11:19 AM) Limit1x: WTG amer.
(11:19 AM) Gorillatrader: I printed them and pasted on monitor
(11:20 AM) Buffy_04364: now theres a good idea
(11:20 AM) LB20: yes, GT     don't want to limit the "good times"   LOL
(11:20 AM) Gorillatrader: good times for me is down too
(11:20 AM) Gorillatrader: lol
(11:21 AM) larrybf: gorillatrader- can the dow futures be traded electronically?
(11:21 AM) Gorillatrader: yes
(11:21 AM) tomsurf: larry gonna have Dow minis at end of Sept
(11:21 AM) LB20: I agree!  I prefer to short markets myself
(11:21 AM) larrybf: with which broker?
(11:21 AM) amer_68: Tks limit.
(11:21 AM) amer_68: Tks. limit.
(11:21 AM) mike_okc: I look forward to seeing some of you next week.  Until then, have a great holiday weekend.
(11:21 AM) Gorillatrader: any broker that has eCBOT A/C/E
(11:21 AM) Buffy_04364: you too Mike
(11:22 AM) tomsurf: you too mike!
(11:22 AM) Buffy_04364: will be there if get soundcard working
(11:22 AM) Gorillatrader: have a great weekend Mike, 
(11:23 AM) Buffy_04364: Hi Howard
(11:23 AM) Buffy_04364: thanks for the "save" last night
(11:23 AM) jimbo_320: so is the limit down value of 5% limit down of 60 taken off the opening price to get the final value?
(11:24 AM) Gorillatrader: close yeaterday
(11:24 AM) jimbo_320: thanks GT
(11:24 AM) Gorillatrader: RTH Close
(11:24 AM) jimbo_320: at 4.15?
(11:25 AM) Dirk-X: Yes, think I like the net change in my account today, maybe done for day
(11:25 AM) Buffy_04364: yes it is tempting dirk
(11:25 AM) Ensign Software: My COMPLIMENTS to beanman for the beautiful ES charts showing Pyrapoint today.
(11:25 AM) Ensign Software: Great examples and great tool!!!!
(11:26 AM) Buffy_04364: but I won't - like the room and want to stick around for retro discussion at 4:15
(11:26 AM) Buffy_04364: his charts are fantastic and really helping me
(11:26 AM) Buffy_04364: they are going to be added tothe pyra section Howard
(11:26 AM) Dirk-X: Og, I'll be here, just think no more trades
(11:26 AM) Dirk-X: og=oh
(11:26 AM) Buffy_04364: great dirk
(11:26 AM) Dirk-X: especially for retro discussion
(11:27 AM) Buffy_04364: many will be
(11:27 AM) Dirk-X: got some ideas and some data to share
(11:27 AM) dave_b_quick: great
(11:27 AM) Buffy_04364: good looking forward to it
(11:27 AM) beanman_1: thks howard..
(11:27 AM) Buffy_04364: Howard will you be able to join us
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(11:32 AM) gunner-: no attempt to bring DOW back to 10k
(11:33 AM) Tom_B: if this becomes 5m 1-2-3 wud retro buy 15m inside bar ?
(11:34 AM) Dirk-X: I have a feeling that the short interest in this market right now must be unbelievable...but, that also means that if that 135 min potential 2b gets triggered on a rally...well, spring is heavily coiled...
(11:35 AM) Limit1x: gunner, there hasn't been a bar to get clear of the 15/20 es since monday
(11:35 AM) Tom_B: ouch
(11:35 AM) gunner-: Dirk  I have found that "feeling"  is usually wishful thinking,, LOL
(11:36 AM) gunner-: limit   yeh,, real down pressure... that's why no auto10 here yet, holding..
(11:36 AM) Dirk-X: Oh, I could honestly care less which way it goes, gunner
(11:36 AM) gunner-: and we roll over at 20EMA1..
(11:36 AM) jimbo_320: big vol bar
(11:36 AM) Dirk-X: just like to keep all possibilities in mind
(11:37 AM) Limit1x: IBM giving it up
(11:37 AM) jimbo_320: what is limit on nq and es ?
(11:37 AM) ppusa: dirk, if retro gives a long, you could hold for a possible big move.  Some sort of signal. Or you could do what i do and jump in trying to be a hero
(11:37 AM) gunner-: big  TRIN delta s..
(11:37 AM) Gorillatrader: 90/60
(11:38 AM) jimbo_320: you mean 1390?
(11:38 AM) Gorillatrader: net change
(11:40 AM) jimbo_320: so i make that 1410?
(11:41 AM) dave_b_quick: retro is 2x short now
(11:41 AM) gunner-: took  my 20 mini pts.. 
(11:41 AM) jimbo_320: i'll have another +7.5 on es WOW
(11:41 AM) gunner-: 1127
(11:42 AM) ppusa: we are rediculously oversold
(11:42 AM) ppusa: where is a buy on retro?
(11:43 AM) dave_b_quick: not yet, ppusa
(11:43 AM) Buffy_04364: BOS beanman
(11:43 AM) jimbo_320: nice gunner, so we hit LD on es?
(11:43 AM) beanman_1: means target is reached tighen stops
(11:43 AM) ppusa: at 60?
(11:43 AM) dave_b_quick: ya, that would be the 5m 2B rule
(11:44 AM) Limit1x: nice on gunner.
(11:44 AM) Limit1x: on=one
(11:44 AM) gunner-: limit     like the "ol days"  :) 
(11:44 AM) Buffy_04364: nice gunner
(11:44 AM) Limit1x: yes :-)
(11:44 AM) Buffy_04364: amer - be a challenge to beat this paper trading day!
(11:44 AM) ppusa: PnF gets first buys at 60
(11:45 AM) gunner-: agree with oversold,,, but i can't touch it here.. "rules" won't allow
(11:45 AM) ppusa: that was a pretty ferocious sell off. Capitulation?
(11:46 AM) ppusa: rules?
(11:47 AM) gunner-: mine
(11:47 AM) ppusa: back at ma's now
(11:47 AM) ppusa: got rid of some of obot
(11:47 AM) ppusa: i meean oversold
(11:47 AM) Buffy_04364: yep it did but still no sign trend changing
(11:47 AM) Buffy_04364: just doing shorts here
(11:48 AM) ppusa: really blew the BB's apart on that drop
(11:48 AM) Dirk-X: Time to chop and base through lunch and then flip a coin for direction in the afternoon
(11:48 AM) ppusa: yes, i get nothing positive until a break of 60
(11:49 AM) ppusa: i wouldn't be surprised to see 60 but rules
(11:49 AM) Gorillatrader: pp, go "freestyle"
(11:49 AM) Gorillatrader: I like that word...lol
(11:49 AM) jimbo_320: gunner did you short the flag under the low of day?
(11:49 AM) Dirk-X: 3 min has triggered 2b reversal buy...not for me, but its there
(11:50 AM) elly_34: is this last retro trade stopped?
(11:50 AM) ppusa: freestyle is i buy here because i can own the nas.
(11:50 AM) Gorillatrader: lol
(11:50 AM) Tom_B: stp 60.5
(11:51 AM) ppusa: Michael Jackson just bot the whole nas this morning and every stock that is in it
(11:51 AM) dave_b_quick: not yet, elly
(11:51 AM) Dirk-X: think retro SL at 1460
(11:51 AM) Gorillatrader: and had money left over
(11:51 AM) Tom_B: how u gonna "Beat" that ?
(11:51 AM) Buffy_04364: for the newcomers - retro meeting at 4:15
(11:52 AM) gunner-: jimbo   shorted bounce off 20EMA1 qat 10:13   es 1147
(11:53 AM) ppusa: personally i find pyro confusing. But some insight into it has yielded info that can be applied to other charts. Specifically looking for the channels and trend line breaks.
(11:53 AM) amer_68: Buffy If my entries were perfect it would be net 50 naz points. I'm a bit heady now. :-)
(11:54 AM) ppusa: just crossed above 200 ma on 30 tick
(11:54 AM) ppusa: 50 ma on 1 minute
(11:54 AM) amer_68: No, 45.
(11:54 AM) jimbo_320: did u trail a stop to the swing highs on the 1min? i need to practice my exits, entries are fine but exits?
(11:56 AM) beanman_1: PPusa.. at the end of the day.. pyra and PNF are very similar..
(11:56 AM) beanman_1: PPuse PNF also uses 45 degree for support/resistance
(11:56 AM) gunner-: jimbo   my stops   2 pts above 20EMA1..
(11:56 AM) beanman_1: like pyra
(11:57 AM) ppusa: yes to some extent i think
(11:57 AM) Gorillatrader: PnF is a great tool once you get used to the rules and patterns
(11:57 AM) beanman_1: and both show consolidations and breakout of trading ranges
(11:58 AM) Gorillatrader: the 45 degree in PnF are the basis for Res and Sup Lines
(11:58 AM) beanman_1: GT, same as pyra..
(11:58 AM) Gorillatrader: 45 deg is a basic foundation for PnF
(11:58 AM) jimbo_320: nice move, maybe i'll try that, how did you pick the 27 exit, was that LD?
(11:58 AM) beanman_1: except pyra add the time dimension
(11:58 AM) Gorillatrader: my point, beanman
(11:58 AM) Gorillatrader: no time dimension in PnF
(11:58 AM) beanman_1: you were the one that taught me the importance of 45's
(11:59 AM) beanman_1: master
(11:59 AM) Gorillatrader: lol, came to me in a dream
(11:59 AM) Dirk-X: Beanman, is there a basis for determining the most useful degree setting for pyra on a given chart...i.e. 16min vs 4min, etc..??
(11:59 AM) Buffy_04364: GT teaches well
(12:00 PM) beanman_1: visually select a degree setting that seem to catch the top and bottom of squares and eos..
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(12:00 PM) gunner-: long 1132
(12:01 PM) gravestonedoggie: lonely at the bottom
(12:02 PM) Dirk-X: thx
(12:02 PM) gravestonedoggie: 5 min bars range narrowing
(12:03 PM) Tom_B: whr is retro stp now /
(12:03 PM) Buffy_04364: TOS
(12:03 PM) Buffy_04364: don't think it moved did it dave?
(12:04 PM) Tom_B: 59.5, IB
(12:04 PM) Buffy_04364: Dave?
(12:04 PM) gunner-: I need Trin to go down here
(12:04 PM) dave_b_quick: right, buffy
(12:04 PM) Buffy_04364: oh ok 
(12:05 PM) Buffy_04364: there you are
(12:05 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(12:05 PM) Tom_B: 60,sry
(12:05 PM) Tom_B: this wud be retro buy also ?
(12:06 PM) Tom_B: Dave ?
(12:06 PM) gravestonedoggie: yes
(12:07 PM) gravestonedoggie: 2b on 5 and 15 min bar breakout
(12:07 PM) Jr_Steggy: proptrader demo tonight 3:45 central time room proptrader to down load protrader go to www.proedgeonline.com broker Jr Stegmueller
(12:07 PM) elly_34: then it must also be stopped
(12:07 PM) elly_34: the prev short
(12:07 PM) Tom_B: y
(12:07 PM) dave_b_quick: y
(12:07 PM) Tom_B: long frm ?
(12:07 PM) Buffy_04364: we may all still be in here yakking about retro  :-)
(12:08 PM) ppusa: on 15 minute chart this looks like just a bounce high to new lows... alternative would be a  platform to HOD
(12:08 PM) Owlee123: how did retro do this am?
(12:08 PM) trader139: low in? check my chart - trader1392.jpg
(12:08 PM) jimbo_320: hih vol bar on es, 35 is previous swing low
(12:08 PM) elly_34: it didn't stop at 1460 did it?
(12:08 PM) ppusa: flip a coin
(12:08 PM) Buffy_04364: nice chart trader139
(12:09 PM) Tom_B: y, 60 stp & reverse I think..
(12:09 PM) dave_b_quick: owlee, +10 -5 +15 -5
(12:09 PM) Tom_B: Dave, long now frm 60 ?
(12:10 PM) dave_b_quick: y
(12:10 PM) Owlee123: good going
(12:10 PM) gravestonedoggie: certainly a low.. 
(12:10 PM) Buffy_04364: did I miss howard saying whether he could come to retro discussion tonight or not
(12:11 PM) Gorillatrader: Any agenda for the Retro meeting? to follow an organized discussion thread?
(12:11 PM) Buffy_04364: lots of new names here today - please feel free to ask questions and make comments
(12:11 PM) Buffy_04364: I hope so GT
(12:11 PM) Buffy_04364: we are trying to
(12:12 PM) Buffy_04364: put one thing up for discussion if dave wants to at a time
(12:12 PM) gravestonedoggie: a low.. but the low?
(12:12 PM) gravestonedoggie: clueless
(12:12 PM) Buffy_04364: just a flag in my book so far
(12:13 PM) Buffy_04364: but not really cause it took out last swing high
(12:13 PM) Buffy_04364: hmmm
(12:13 PM) tomsurf: gsd- where is retro's picture again?
(12:13 PM) Buffy_04364: diagonal hit beanman
(12:13 PM) gravestonedoggie: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/2001-08-27/GSDRETPIC11.gif
(12:13 PM) ppusa: The last 2 days has seen this bounce as the top of the correction followed by a new low. Is today the day for the bottom?
(12:14 PM) tomsurf: cool, Thx :-)
(12:14 PM) dave_b_quick: ya, GSD, agenda based on posted questions first, then new issues
(12:14 PM) Buffy_04364: sounds good dave
(12:14 PM) elly_34: meaning the questions from when you were away?
(12:14 PM) Buffy_04364: yes elly
(12:14 PM) elly_34: excellent
(12:14 PM) dave_b_quick: y
(12:15 PM) Buffy_04364: wish I didn't have to leave at 6:20
(12:15 PM) Zentrader: I'm new to the group and have several questions about the trading rules.  Would it be best to save them for the 4:15 session?
(12:16 PM) Buffy_04364: welcome zentrader
(12:16 PM) Tom_B: go to www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com there is an ovrview there
(12:16 PM) Buffy_04364: do you have the rules at the website
(12:16 PM) Buffy_04364: from the website
(12:16 PM) Zentrader: I have read them
(12:17 PM) Gorillatrader: Zen, why don't you post your questions here for Dave and others to  study them
(12:17 PM) Buffy_04364: that is a good idea GT
(12:17 PM) Tom_B: if u go back ovr last wk , under GSD posts you'll see questions
(12:17 PM) Buffy_04364: market slow we can maybe answer a few
(12:18 PM) Gorillatrader: the more organized we are, the better and productive the Retro meeting will be
(12:18 PM) Buffy_04364: so true GT
(12:18 PM) Zentrader: Was the first trade a long at 1481.50 and then an exit at 1488 off the trailing stop?
(12:18 PM) Buffy_04364: still a lot to cover I think but we can always have another meeting  :-)
(12:18 PM) Gorillatrader: refering to any new questions not posted on web dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart site
(12:19 PM) Tom_B: when do u want these ques ?
(12:19 PM) gravestonedoggie: full question summary is here:
(12:19 PM) gravestonedoggie: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/2001-08-24/GSDQUES1.gif
(12:20 PM) Tom_B: new ques
(12:20 PM) gravestonedoggie: that is, ones i found... probably plenty i missed or others
(12:20 PM) Buffy_04364: dave was using a smaller TF for the stops and the trade was +10
(12:20 PM) Buffy_04364: I think he said the swing lows on the 1M
(12:20 PM) Gorillatrader: refer to GSD link first, then let's add questions here for GSD to post
(12:20 PM) Buffy_04364: anyone remember for sure
(12:20 PM) Tom_B: think so
(12:20 PM) Dirk-X: Trader139:  what is the bottom half of your posted chart displaying?
(12:20 PM) gravestonedoggie: a couple more here:
(12:20 PM) elly_34: because it was an early morning trade?
(12:20 PM) gravestonedoggie: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/charts/2001-08-28/GSDSUMRY1.gif
(12:21 PM) elly_34: is that the reason buffy?
(12:21 PM) Buffy_04364: yes and retro track record for first trade not good
(12:21 PM) elly_34: yes understand
(12:21 PM) Zentrader: Are there additional rules other than those posted?
(12:21 PM) gravestonedoggie: i think those 2 links had all questions i recorded
(12:21 PM) Tom_B: he didn't give a reason at that tie
(12:21 PM) Buffy_04364: think Dave might of been trying the smaller TF to see if helped
(12:21 PM) Gorillatrader: thx, GSD
(12:22 PM) Buffy_04364: not yet zen but will be clarified and added to after tonight
(12:22 PM) Gorillatrader: LOng bounce stretching higher
(12:22 PM) Buffy_04364: yep and I am not in it :-(
(12:22 PM) gravestonedoggie: 20ema5 busted
(12:22 PM) Gorillatrader: I am...lol, used tickcharts for early entry
(12:22 PM) Gorillatrader: 1450
(12:23 PM) Buffy_04364: I knew you would be LOL
(12:23 PM) Buffy_04364: nice
(12:23 PM) Buffy_04364: wasn't paying attention
(12:23 PM) Zentrader: Using the trading rules, was the entry at 1459?
(12:23 PM) Gorillatrader: tick charts very useful at times
(12:23 PM) Buffy_04364: sure are
(12:23 PM) Buffy_04364: yes zen
(12:23 PM) elly_34: i think perhaps looking at a different exit for the large fast moves, like the drop this morning
(12:23 PM) gravestonedoggie: es still at 20ema5
(12:23 PM) Buffy_04364: could be elly
(12:24 PM) Dirk-X: Yes...I think for everybody, if you think of a question or suggestion or idea re:retro, type it, if not here, then on Word,...while trading with market open is probably when the most applicable thoughts will occur
(12:24 PM) Buffy_04364: as fast moves don't give retro a chance to move stop
(12:24 PM) elly_34: yes, so perhaps then the tf gets a bit shorter than 5
(12:24 PM) Zentrader: Is the trailing stop then based on the highest low of the 5 min bars?
(12:24 PM) elly_34: that was a 17 pt stop
(12:24 PM) Buffy_04364: yes if the TF isn't letting you move stops then go to next lower one until you find one that does
(12:25 PM) gravestonedoggie: the stock market has changed colors, just like michael jackson
(12:25 PM) Buffy_04364: not sure but that would be my thinking
(12:25 PM) ppusa: ugh
(12:25 PM) Gorillatrader: lol, GSD
(12:25 PM) Buffy_04364: time line in pyra beanman?
(12:26 PM) Buffy_04364: beanman posted another pyra chart
(12:26 PM) elly_34: yes buffy lower tf
(12:27 PM) gravestonedoggie: not a place for women and children, just like michael jackson's house
(12:28 PM) beanman_1: yes.. on 4min.. but not on more impt 16mn
(12:28 PM) Buffy_04364: right
(12:28 PM) Buffy_04364: ]yahoo I am getting this!
(12:28 PM) Buffy_04364: tks
(12:28 PM) cheetah55: women are safe at mike's I think
(12:28 PM) beanman_1: 16min nailed the eos and reversal on the es
(12:28 PM) gravestonedoggie: oh, ok
(12:28 PM) cheetah55: hehe
Paltalk: Multivideo has been activated in all Paltalk groups!!! With Paltalk 4.0 (available from our beta link off our homepage), you can see up to three people in every group. Paltalk Plus subscribers can see people in full motion video. 
(12:29 PM) gravestonedoggie: not up on my m. jackson facts
(12:29 PM) Buffy_04364: have they fixed the disappearing script in the new version of pal talk yet?
(12:30 PM) gunner-: Buffy   not in beta I'm using
Paltalk: Your friends are just a click away!
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(12:30 PM) gunner-: just lost it all
(12:30 PM) Buffy_04364: ok will wait until that is fixed before I do
(12:30 PM) Buffy_04364: tks to both of you
(12:30 PM) Gorillatrader: not upgrading to 4.0
(12:31 PM) Owlee123: dbq, where is the stop for the retro 60 lomg?
(12:31 PM) gunner-: multi video is great tho..
(12:31 PM) Gorillatrader: only need video when visiting the girly sites
(12:31 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(12:32 PM) gunner-: tel lthat to my gkids  
(12:32 PM) Gorillatrader: lol
(12:32 PM) Dirk-X: FWIW, have back-traded about ten or twelve randomly selected days throughout the past month and a half with about 6 different versions of retro rules....
(12:32 PM) Dirk-X: always used standard entry signals...but had 6  different exit strategies, each with 1 element added/changed from "control" method
(12:33 PM) Dirk-X: will describe in detail this afternoon
(12:33 PM) Gorillatrader: great, Dirk
(12:33 PM) ppusa: i think if nq trades above 60 to 70 area it has a shot at a new high. But this last 15 minute bar buy has been a setup every day for further selliing (flag). This might be a consideration in future retro trades.
Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
(12:35 PM) Owlee123: any TS programming experts in the room?
(12:35 PM) Gorillatrader: I'm an amateur on Easy Language
(12:35 PM) Gorillatrader: but can give it a shot
(12:36 PM) Zentrader: depends on what you are trying to do...can generally fake it
(12:36 PM) Zentrader: definitely an amateur like GT
(12:36 PM) Owlee123: GT, could the retro rules be progrmmed for entry and exits?
(12:37 PM) Owlee123: Zentrader too
(12:37 PM) perltrader: i've been on vacation. what is this retro stuff. I might be able to backtest using perl; have index data going back several years
(12:37 PM) Gorillatrader: the subjective patterns are difficult to mathematically code to be reliable
(12:37 PM) Zentrader: the patterns would be challenging
(12:37 PM) Gorillatrader: "experts" EL programmers could do it
(12:37 PM) Owlee123: what's perl?
(12:38 PM) Gorillatrader: perl is a language
(12:38 PM) perltrader: perl is a programming language i use
(12:39 PM) perltrader: what is the retro pattern?
(12:39 PM) Tom_B: David l, did retro stp move up on IB ?
(12:40 PM) perltrader: have people abandoned the TM approach?
(12:40 PM) Dirk-X: Actually GT, the primary factor here will be difficult to program: short-term trendlines...
(12:41 PM) Dirk-X: as this is the basis for exitting
(12:41 PM) Gorillatrader: Dirk, TradeStation has trendlines
(12:41 PM) Dirk-X: they break, then then 1-2-3 or 2b
(12:41 PM) Dirk-X: Reeeeaally
(12:41 PM) Dirk-X: how customizable?
(12:42 PM) Gorillatrader: 1-2-3, 2b can be coded with Pivot and Swing Hi/Lo codes, but the # bars must be specified
(12:42 PM) elly_34: has anyone looked back at the history of these deadzone trades on retro?
(12:42 PM) Dirk-X: kind of
(12:42 PM) Gorillatrader: All Easy Langauge (EL) code is open. so it can be changed
(12:42 PM) Gorillatrader: just takes "esxpertise" and time
(12:43 PM) perltrader: is there a write up of the retro method somewhere?
(12:43 PM) Gorillatrader: we must start with basic rules, test them, and build blicks slowly and carefully
(12:44 PM) Gorillatrader: yes, on www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com
(12:44 PM) perltrader: ok, i'll take a look, thanks. You want to backtest on nq, es right?
(12:44 PM) Gorillatrader: yes
(12:45 PM) Gorillatrader: RTH only
(12:45 PM) gravestonedoggie: perl, if you go thru charts posted from 8/17 and earlier, under retro charts, trades are shown, and they contain additional rules
(12:46 PM) perltrader: ok, thanks gsd. I'll take a look. What's RTH?
(12:46 PM) Gorillatrader: 09:30 to 4:15pm
(12:46 PM) perltrader: oh, where are charts?
(12:46 PM) perltrader: Ok, got ya, reg trading hours. been on vac for 3 weeks!
(12:47 PM) larrybf: just a suggestion for retro trade stats- the trades should be "timestamped"
(12:48 PM) Gorillatrader: in and out, when stops moves, should be timestamped to be able to follow
(12:48 PM) Buffy_04364: we close 10 minutes eariler tomorrow?
(12:48 PM) perltrader: got them!
(12:48 PM) Buffy_04364: hi perltrader - welcome
(12:48 PM) ppusa: buffy last trading day 10 min earlier?
(12:48 PM) Buffy_04364: Howard said he would join us but to remind him
(12:48 PM) perltrader: hi buffy, thx
(12:49 PM) Buffy_04364: just got notice from Best they said holiday
(12:49 PM) ppusa: i wonder if the length of the first hour bar can be related to retro?
(12:49 PM) jimbo_320: anybody notice the trading pattern today is almost exactly the same as the day we had that big sell on gdp day
(12:50 PM) Buffy_04364: don't know but putting all sessions on it sure makes it clearer what retro first move might be
(12:50 PM) Buffy_04364: and why
(12:51 PM) ppusa: seems when first hour's range is wider than 2nd hour, go into a flag and chop
(12:51 PM) Dirk-X: That's something to check out, pp
(12:51 PM) ppusa: as related to small 1st hour with a break as traders develop continuing trend
(12:53 PM) ppusa: yes i haven't looked at it but this week i did notice the pattern. After an early sell off, there isn't much to do but chop
(12:53 PM) jimbo_320: i am taking the rest of the day off, +11 es on the day :-), might come back for last hour, enjoy the chop....
(12:54 PM) Dirk-X: Thinking up this afternoon
(12:54 PM) Buffy_04364: gee thanks Jimbo!  :-)
(12:54 PM) Buffy_04364: come back for retro discussion for sure ok?
(12:54 PM) jimbo_320: gsd, theres some sharks teeth 4 u now
(12:55 PM) gravestonedoggie: hehe.. thnx
(12:55 PM) Dirk-X: isn't looking like downward-continuation-pattern down day
(12:55 PM) Buffy_04364: down TL held
(12:55 PM) perltrader: buffy, where and when is retro discussion?
(12:55 PM) Buffy_04364: broke through sqare on pyra
(12:55 PM) gravestonedoggie: same shark showed up right before the big downleg this am
(12:55 PM) ppusa: Dirk i can see your bias and it wouldn't surprise me one bit. But i think more lkkely sit here and get an up over the next few days. The market acts like it has lost it's incentive to skyrocket.
(12:55 PM) Buffy_04364: tonight here at 4:15
(12:55 PM) perltrader: k, thx
(12:56 PM) perltrader: i will take a stab at backtesting once I learn the rules; 
(12:56 PM) Buffy_04364: hope you can join us
(12:56 PM) Buffy_04364: great
(12:56 PM) Buffy_04364: appreciate it
(12:56 PM) ppusa: so far that bounce to 60 was nothing more than retracement 
(12:57 PM) perltrader: i have intraday naz and s&p data going back several years
(12:57 PM) Buffy_04364: just posted 5M with TL
(12:57 PM) elly_34: isn't one of our questions about tightening up stops on countertrend entries?
(12:57 PM) Buffy_04364: great pearltrader
(12:57 PM) Buffy_04364: fantastic in fact
(12:58 PM) elly_34: like that one went for 5, i woulda stopped out flat
(12:58 PM) Buffy_04364: is it yours?
(12:58 PM) perltrader: so you need to be able to recognize 2bs, 123's?
(12:58 PM) Buffy_04364: I ask because Howard is looking for  a way to give ensign users intraday
(12:58 PM) Buffy_04364: yes and definition should be cleared up tonight
(12:58 PM) perltrader: i bought a CD of intraday data
(12:58 PM) gravestonedoggie: shark has lweak bite this time
(12:58 PM) ppusa: all the PnF's are in sell signals again. good time to start looking for bounces
(01:00 PM) ppusa: although longer term PnF's suggest new lows before any major turn
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(01:00 PM) ppusa: they are in sell signal, not overextended
(01:03 PM) ppusa: personallly i am long again
(01:04 PM) ppusa: selling every rally
(01:05 PM) Dirk-X: Buy stop at 1459.5... if filled, will not hesitate to reverse, but thinking up eventually, for at least a little rally
(01:08 PM) Buffy_04364: going to try to takeout TL
(01:08 PM) Buffy_04364: have a poke bar
(01:10 PM) Buffy_04364: tagging diagonal on pyra
(01:11 PM) Buffy_04364: tks


* Paltalk was down for an hour or so *

Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
Tom_B: out also
gunner-: this chat refresh to cut out text is a Poff
(02:55 PM) jimbo_320: i'm stopped at be so, if i win, i win, i lose, i lose nothing
(02:56 PM) gunner-: i'm long 1128
(02:56 PM) Buffy_04364: nice gunner
(02:56 PM) gunner-: classic 20EMA1 bounce
(02:56 PM) tomsurf: jimbo- looking good
(02:56 PM) jimbo_320: nice one gunner
(02:57 PM) jimbo_320: es looking better at moment
(02:58 PM) Buffy_04364: welcome back all
(02:58 PM) Buffy_04364: update on retro Dave?
(02:59 PM) dave_b_quick: retro is long 1453
(02:59 PM) Buffy_04364: k
(03:01 PM) gunner-: out + 4
(03:02 PM) Buffy_04364: nice
(03:04 PM) jimbo_320: stopped +4
(03:05 PM) jimbo_320: should wait a bit longer but es clunk didnt look good
(03:08 PM) GGriz: I lost DTN sig  anyone else????
(03:08 PM) Daniel X: good here
(03:08 PM) gunner-: lost all
(03:08 PM) GGriz: sat is dead
(03:08 PM) jimbo_320: 20 and 100ema overhead on es
(03:09 PM) GGriz: u on sat Daniel?
(03:09 PM) Daniel X: 1462 pivot res
(03:09 PM) Daniel X: cable
(03:09 PM) Buffy_04364: sure seemed funny trading without you guys
(03:09 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(03:10 PM) thoff: Did that message go through...I pasted it :)?
(03:10 PM) tomsurf: Buffy, was sorta wierd...kept looking for window
(03:10 PM) thoff: it might have been too long?
(03:10 PM) Buffy_04364: yes it was
(03:11 PM) Buffy_04364: try again
(03:11 PM) GGriz: dtn is back sorta
(03:11 PM) Daniel X: lol yes felt lonely trading blind..sorta..you know that feeling when ur wearing a hospital gown and ur backside feels exposed...BBbrrr
(03:11 PM) tomsurf: lol
(03:11 PM) thoff: Daniel...can you pm me....I got a question and I tried pming you but it wouldn't take it
(03:12 PM) Daniel X: pk
(03:12 PM) Daniel X: ok
(03:12 PM) Gorillatrader: took me forever to get in paltalk..server busy
(03:13 PM) dave_b_quick: ya, don't buy paltalk stock yet
(03:13 PM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(03:13 PM) Gorillatrader: I'm short Paltalk
(03:13 PM) Gorillatrader: lol
(03:13 PM) thoff: daniel...I can't chat....it wont take the message
(03:13 PM) tomsurf: GT- ;-)
(03:13 PM) jimbo_320: 5c a share, overvalued
(03:13 PM) thoff: I am not on your buddy list I guess?
(03:14 PM) Buffy_04364: good one GT
(03:14 PM) Daniel X: ok will fix,hold
(03:14 PM) thoff: ok
(03:15 PM) Daniel X: go now
(03:15 PM) thoff: ok
(03:15 PM) Daniel X: i hate  ...i hate it so much
(03:16 PM) Buffy_04364: I got chopped 
(03:16 PM) Buffy_04364: :-(
(03:16 PM) jimbo_320: maybe another of those ,'cover 2 mins before the close coming up'
(03:17 PM) Gorillatrader: are we Long or Short? I'm confused
(03:17 PM) tomsurf: GT- glad I'm not the only one
(03:18 PM) Buffy_04364: me 2  :-)
(03:18 PM) Daniel X: stradle
(03:18 PM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(03:18 PM) Buffy_04364: there is the answer
(03:18 PM) Gorillatrader: no trades here, will give all back if I do
(03:18 PM) Gorillatrader: straddle = waffle
(03:18 PM) Daniel X: go long in 1 account ..short in the other...cut the loser
(03:19 PM) Gorillatrader: hehe, or watch the Cartoon Channel
(03:19 PM) Daniel X: does this ever work?
(03:19 PM) tomsurf: LOL
(03:20 PM) ppusa: how long has chat been up?
(03:20 PM) ppusa: or was i the only one gone?
(03:20 PM) elly_34: nope i was gone
(03:20 PM) elly_34: i just got back
(03:20 PM) Buffy_04364: not too long - forgot to turn on time stamp
(03:20 PM) ppusa: ok
(03:20 PM) Daniel X: when i clap my hands...tsh tsh
(03:21 PM) ppusa: i had a long recommendation at 1441 for everyone
(03:21 PM) ppusa: just kidding
(03:21 PM) Buffy_04364: glad paltalk doesn't do that often though
(03:21 PM) elly_34: lol
(03:21 PM) Buffy_04364: longest I have seen it down
(03:21 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(03:22 PM) ppusa: :-)
(03:22 PM) gunner-: SAR's 1129.. my entry.. long
(03:22 PM) Gorillatrader: 1440.5 was the precise Entry, I'll sell you the "System"...haha
(03:22 PM) jimbo_320: posted chart es sellers at emas have been busy
(03:22 PM) ppusa: someone caught on eh GT
(03:22 PM) Gorillatrader: thx jimbo
(03:22 PM) Gorillatrader: hehe
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: nice jimbo
(03:23 PM) Gorillatrader: what name on chart?
(03:23 PM) ppusa: nq above 60  would look good
(03:23 PM) jimbo_320: ES emini
(03:23 PM) Buffy_04364: jimbo1
(03:24 PM) Gorillatrader: ok, 1466 is Pivot High
(03:24 PM) jimbo_320: LOL, pp, we already tried that one and it failed badly
(03:24 PM) ppusa: how true
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(03:25 PM) ppusa: that was without a retest etc. 
(03:25 PM) ppusa: same move as yesterday 
(03:25 PM) ppusa: and the day before
(03:25 PM) Daniel X: yep
(03:26 PM) Daniel X: contract change next week
(03:26 PM) Daniel X: ?
(03:26 PM) Daniel X: day?
(03:27 PM) Gorillatrader: If you want to Swing trade this NQ puppy, you can Short here at 1454, put a BuyStop at 1606 where the true Swing High is....on 8/27
(03:27 PM) ppusa: i don't know how to read this hour chart i posted earlier but i think it has some info that would tell what will happen next. I will repost in a monent.
(03:28 PM) ppusa: I guess the difference is this time 60 area is swing high?
(03:28 PM) Tom_B: i'm straddling the 5m 1-2-3's
(03:28 PM) jimbo_320: dow sitting on 9901
(03:29 PM) tang: 49 would be good to short?
(03:29 PM) Tom_B: triple bot on 5m in es don't usually hold, imvho
(03:29 PM) Buffy_04364: y
(03:29 PM) tang: ok buffy
(03:30 PM) Daniel X: not in this no way not me Tang
(03:30 PM) Gorillatrader: looks short
(03:30 PM) tang: ok dan y
(03:30 PM) Buffy_04364: acording to retro rules right?
(03:30 PM) Dirk-X: But at this point, I think just about every breakout will be a trap...so be careful, or just wait til' tuesday, Tang
(03:30 PM) Daniel X: lol GT
(03:30 PM) ppusa: posted
(03:30 PM) Buffy_04364: dave is that where retro would go short?
(03:31 PM) tang: yes, we have 123
(03:31 PM) Daniel X: yes rules rules
(03:31 PM) tang: ok dirk
(03:31 PM) Daniel X: what would we do without them hhmmm
(03:32 PM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(03:32 PM) jimbo_320: closing at lows today?
(03:32 PM) Tom_B: labotomy plse
(03:32 PM) ppusa: just started a newhour bar
(03:32 PM) Daniel X: Tang if you go long Monday i personally will take the loss from u if you lose
(03:33 PM) Tom_B: lol
(03:33 PM) Buffy_04364: LOL
(03:33 PM) Buffy_04364: I don't know about you but I am looking forward to the 3days
(03:33 PM) Gorillatrader: Dan, Globex is open on Monday evening...lol
(03:33 PM) ppusa: nq is open monday
(03:33 PM) Buffy_04364: will have this room open most of the time in case anyone wants to chat
(03:33 PM) Daniel X: no one else will step up  to back up their calls ..i will!
(03:33 PM) ppusa: does that apply to me
(03:34 PM) Tom_B: i'm straddled
(03:34 PM) Daniel X: till 4:15 only wise guy
(03:34 PM) ppusa: i missed the call. What was it?
(03:34 PM) Daniel X: yes all trades Monday are on Me
(03:34 PM) jimbo_320: tom, on who?
(03:34 PM) ppusa: nq trades monday
(03:34 PM) elly_34: i think monday will be a down day
(03:34 PM) Gorillatrader: all trades and Drinks included?
(03:34 PM) Tom_B: no comment
(03:34 PM) ppusa: nq trades monday
(03:35 PM) Tom_B: nq trades where mon ?
(03:35 PM) ppusa: want to hear it again?
(03:35 PM) Daniel X: CLOSED LOL
(03:35 PM) ppusa: no it is open
(03:35 PM) Daniel X: evening
(03:35 PM) Tom_B: mon nite ?
(03:35 PM) jimbo_320: es on that 100ema again!
(03:35 PM) Daniel X: sesion
(03:36 PM) Tom_B: a dribble of shrt cvrng might show up..
(03:36 PM) Buffy_04364: teting last swing high
(03:36 PM) jimbo_320: its gonna spoil it now by going UP!
(03:36 PM) Buffy_04364: testing
(03:36 PM) Tom_B: 1475 near term target...if
(03:36 PM) ppusa: look at the chart i posted
(03:37 PM) Tom_B: testing 1-2-3
(03:37 PM) ppusa: should rally to 70 - 80?
(03:37 PM) Tom_B: hello test
(03:37 PM) Gorillatrader: hello test
(03:37 PM) ppusa: to the down channel?
(03:37 PM) Tom_B: this is the beginning of a vry dynamic move, 
(03:38 PM) Daniel X: PPUSA sure looks that way
(03:38 PM) Daniel X: 80
(03:38 PM) Buffy_04364: which way though  LOL
(03:38 PM) Daniel X: uP
(03:38 PM) ppusa: nq opens sunday night and halts at 11:30 am monday. Then re-opens for night session
(03:39 PM) Tom_B: they wudn't take my order, wat's wrong with them ?
(03:39 PM) ppusa: boy am i thirsty?
(03:39 PM) Gorillatrader: exactly, pp, we trade for free
(03:39 PM) Daniel X: LOL PP
(03:39 PM) Gorillatrader: I can increase size too
(03:39 PM) Tom_B: opps, they heard me
(03:39 PM) Tom_B: nooo
(03:40 PM) Gorillatrader: LOng, look at SOX
(03:40 PM) ppusa: GT u know how you sold the close yesterday? Maybe same today for tomorrow's move down
(03:40 PM) Daniel X: playing the short cover Tom?
(03:40 PM) Tom_B: if i get filled
(03:40 PM) Gorillatrader: we shall see
(03:40 PM) Tom_B: 60.5
(03:40 PM) Gorillatrader: tomorrow, Globex closes at 4:05 not 4:15
(03:40 PM) Tom_B: , going for 75
(03:41 PM) ppusa: but i don't know but i think nq should close below yesterday's low?
(03:41 PM) Daniel X: hhhhmmmm
(03:41 PM) ppusa: if it doesn't then that would mean?
(03:42 PM) Tom_B: gee, those shorts are scared..
(03:42 PM) Gorillatrader: SOX reversed
(03:42 PM) Buffy_04364: chop chop rest of day?
(03:42 PM) Buffy_04364: tks GT
(03:42 PM) Daniel X: change ur nick name PP to bidkbit....
(03:42 PM) elly_34: here we go up
(03:43 PM) ppusa: bidkbit?
(03:43 PM) Daniel X: but i dont know but i think
(03:43 PM) ppusa: well i don't want to say it again but the 30 point PnF reverses at 75 to 80!!!
(03:43 PM) Daniel X: short cover
(03:43 PM) ppusa: and i am long
(03:44 PM) Daniel X: i saw the chart i agreed!!!
(03:45 PM) Tom_B: retro long too /
(03:46 PM) jimbo_320: long too from 58
(03:46 PM) cheetah55: beanman, you here?
(03:46 PM) Gorillatrader: 1463-66 resistance
(03:46 PM) jimbo_320: see if 60 is support
(03:47 PM) Tom_B: wud be nice...
(03:47 PM) Daniel X: 62 pivot res2
(03:47 PM) ppusa: so what happens if nq breaks 64 to 66? keeps going or runs and then another down 
(03:48 PM) Gorillatrader: 1466 pivot is of concern for longs
(03:48 PM) ppusa: that high was right on some kay ma's
(03:48 PM) Gorillatrader: no idea, one step at a time
(03:48 PM) Gorillatrader: sellers should prevail there
(03:49 PM) Gorillatrader: sold my long position 1462, maybe wrong, but...
(03:49 PM) ppusa: good idea
(03:49 PM) larrybf: keeps on failing at 1460
(03:49 PM) Gorillatrader: 2nd attempt coming up?
(03:49 PM) Tom_B: either now or i'm gone
(03:50 PM) ppusa: good ideaon the "no idea, one step at a time"
(03:50 PM) Tom_B: out
(03:50 PM) jimbo_320: out +2 :-(
(03:50 PM) Gorillatrader: Its how babies learn to walk, one step at a time
(03:50 PM) ppusa: this spike is right beneath the channel line
(03:50 PM) jimbo_320: looks like not a good day to bottom fish
(03:51 PM) ppusa: maybe tomorrow runs through then sells off
(03:51 PM) ppusa: likely scenario
(03:51 PM) gunner-: ttrading summary,, +7,+20,-1,+4,+2,+4,+2 net 38 mini pts.. fine day 
(03:51 PM) gunner-: not many like that
(03:52 PM) Buffy_04364: very fine day gunner
(03:52 PM) Gorillatrader: gunner, trading Retro?
(03:52 PM) ppusa: good job gunner
(03:52 PM) gunner-: why is type larger?
(03:52 PM) elly_34: excellent!!
(03:52 PM) jimbo_320: contributions to my 25,000 account are welcome gunner
(03:52 PM) ppusa: change font size
(03:52 PM) Gorillatrader: NQ, Gunner?  nice job
(03:53 PM) gunner-: GT  ES
(03:53 PM) cheetah55: ES !!   WTG gunner !!
(03:53 PM) Gorillatrader: thx, better
(03:53 PM) Tom_B: vry nimble
(03:53 PM) Gorillatrader: ES traded very well today
(03:53 PM) cheetah55: YDM
(03:53 PM) jimbo_320: drinks r on u then
(03:53 PM) elly_34: u are not traeding retro though right?
(03:54 PM) gunner-: tried NQ back couple months.. just doesn't read for me..
(03:54 PM) cheetah55: don't fix what ain't broker
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(03:55 PM) gunner-: key to day was catching 1147 short.. and getting a double profit stop.. I use an "auto10" profit stop.. today 20  :)
(03:55 PM) Gorillatrader: nice
(03:55 PM) gunner-: and all my trades are posted on site..
(03:56 PM) Gorillatrader: what site?
(03:57 PM) gunner-: our FuturesRoom at talkstox.com
(03:57 PM) elly_34: is that a paltalk room?
(03:57 PM) gunner-: no
(03:57 PM) elly_34: subscription room?
(03:57 PM) gunner-: no
(03:58 PM) elly_34: nice i'd like to check it out
(03:58 PM) Gorillatrader: trading methodology disclosed on site, Gunner?
(03:59 PM) gunner-: elly  register (free)  and go to Bullrooms  then FuturesRoom
(04:00 PM) elly_34: alright will do it tomorrow
(04:00 PM) elly_34: thanks
(04:00 PM) gunner-: GT my methodology a mixed bag,, right,, limit??? LOL
(04:00 PM) Gorillatrader: haha, okay
(04:01 PM) gunner-: not that's it's a secret.. very simple
(04:01 PM) Gorillatrader: I shoot from hip...get lucky
(04:01 PM) Limit1x: lol
(04:01 PM) gunner-: never  hi percentages only
(04:02 PM) gunner-: I use 20EMAs and TRIN basically .. key off DOW and NAS
(04:02 PM) Gorillatrader: like to learn how to identify Hi Percenatge trades
(04:02 PM) Gorillatrader: multi-time frames?
(04:02 PM) gunner-: and trade 1 ES contract. .day only,, and use only freebie charts
(04:04 PM) Gorillatrader: nice
(04:04 PM) gunner-: basically 1 and 5 min ,higher if slow
(04:04 PM) Dirk-X: What is your primary signal, Gunner?
(04:04 PM) Gorillatrader: Dow below 10,000 since April
(04:05 PM) jimbo_320: nice charts gunner
(04:05 PM) gunner-: Dirk   price thru 20EMA and retrace to it, then continue,, only short below 20EMA1 and only long above 
(04:06 PM) gunner-: gave back 1.5 while shhoting mouth off..
(04:06 PM) Dirk-X: Okay, so once you have your directional bias via price relative to 20EMA, how do you use NAS/DOW to key entries?
(04:06 PM) Gorillatrader: distractions are costly
(04:06 PM) jimbo_320: gunner, have u ever tried any other tf other than 1 min using your methodoly?
(04:08 PM) gunner-: Dirk   sometimes,, they move first..// jimbo.. i watch 5 min always.. 1 min for entry
(04:09 PM) gunner-: one rule for hi percehtage trades.. Never go short above 20EMA1 , ,Never long below it..
(04:09 PM) Gorillatrader: logical
(04:09 PM) Buffy_04364: agree
(04:10 PM) Dirk-X: So, just taking a shot here:  if both Nas and Dow move, one confirming the other, but ES hasn't moved yet, do you consider that an entry signal?
(04:10 PM) Gorillatrader: one can select the timeframe of that 20EMA
(04:10 PM) ppusa: funny i look to short above and buy below with trend?
(04:10 PM) jimbo_320: its a +ve feedback loop, dow, comp, futs all watching each other, when they all move, makes the move much bigger LOL
(04:11 PM) gunner-: Dirk if trin is supporting
(04:11 PM) Buffy_04364: just like when everything lines up on the different TF too
(04:12 PM) Dirk-X: I see your trin chart on Talkstox (1:33 post) what specifically was that saying to you?
(04:13 PM) Dirk-X: sorry about all ?'s
(04:13 PM) Daniel X: well...by trying to follow Retro this week as best as i can without puking or having a pissing contest im up 77 points  gotta get to that 100 friday i hope
(04:13 PM) jimbo_320: Dirk I have made some great entries using your shot...
(04:13 PM) Dirk-X: just very interesed
(04:13 PM) Daniel X: alot less posting in the room though
(04:14 PM) jimbo_320: what about a gunner vs retro trading challenge LOL
(04:15 PM) Daniel X: but Retro still beating me :-(
(04:15 PM) gunner-: Dirk  that trin chart .. I use the Delta or differences in trin values as a factor... big changes more strength,, taht said move up coming
(04:16 PM) dave_b_quick: retro the mechanical trader no match for gunner's experience and savvy
(04:16 PM) Gorillatrader: where is that TRIN chart on the site?
(04:16 PM) Dirk-X: http://www.talkstox.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64
(04:16 PM) Daniel X: true Dave but if Retro omitted trade 1 and doldrums..i dunno
(04:17 PM) jimbo_320: vix 28.5, 30 on monday might be worth going long
(04:17 PM) Daniel X: naaahhh
(04:17 PM) ppusa: wait for signal
(04:17 PM) Daniel X: i omit trade1 and take 2 to 3 scalps by 10 am
(04:17 PM) Dirk-X: Delta = differences in which TRIN values?  TRIN values at price swings?  
(04:17 PM) Daniel X: 9/3
(04:18 PM) gunner-: Dirk  each trin value.. i read the ticker..  but equates to candle length  each min
(04:19 PM) Gorillatrader: what chart service you use, Gunner?
(04:19 PM) jimbo_320: anyone explain trin to me, id be v.grateful, never understood it
(04:19 PM) Dirk-X: OHHH,  I think I see
(04:19 PM) gunner-: bluejack 4 chart freebie
(04:19 PM) Gorillatrader: how to get it?
(04:20 PM) gravestonedoggie: it is essentially quote.com free chart, gt
(04:21 PM) gravestonedoggie: except maybe they stay up better at bluejack
(04:21 PM) gunner-: not easy , jimbo .. maybe some other time?  basically, TRIN is a measure, of up and down issues and up and down vol. 1.00 neutral , above bearish below bullish
(04:21 PM) gravestonedoggie: but is the quote.com freebie
(04:21 PM) gravestonedoggie: trin = ratio of adv to decl issues, divided by adv to decl volume
(04:21 PM) gunner-: http://bluejack.debox.de/ click on US Trading And Charts,, click on 2x2
(04:21 PM) Gorillatrader: jimbo, glad to discuss TRIN with you later
(04:22 PM) Gorillatrader: thx
(04:22 PM) Buffy_04364: Dave you about ready to start with retro?
(04:22 PM) gunner-: even better if you speak German...  LOL
(04:22 PM) Buffy_04364: nice discussion guys and great site over there
(04:22 PM) gunner-: peace to all
(04:22 PM) Tom_B: Is Retro meeting 4:15 est or cst ?
(04:22 PM) Buffy_04364: est
(04:22 PM) dave_b_quick: Good night Gunner. 
(04:22 PM) dave_b_quick: Anybody gonna stay for the retro brainstorm session?
(04:23 PM) Tom_B: y
(04:23 PM) Buffy_04364: y
(04:23 PM) Gorillatrader: yes, Present and acount for
(04:23 PM) Gorillatrader: SIR
(04:23 PM) Daniel X: my brain hurts already! but yes
(04:23 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(04:23 PM) dave_b_quick: LOL
(04:23 PM) elly_34: yes
(04:23 PM) elly_34: retro here for sure
(04:23 PM) Buffy_04364: go ahead and use mike and I will type Dave
(04:23 PM) coaster_9: yes
(04:23 PM) elly_34: have to resign on
(04:23 PM) Buffy_04364: if you want
(04:23 PM) elly_34: brb
(04:24 PM) jimbo_320: gunner GT i'll pm you at a quiet time to talk trin, thanks for the offer
(04:24 PM) tpd773: YES
(04:24 PM) Zentrader: yes
(04:24 PM) tang: yues
(04:24 PM) Buffy_04364: or great to discuss while we are "waiting" for the market to do something also
(04:24 PM) dave_b_quick: dog45 has been bounced from the group
(04:24 PM) gravestonedoggie: ty
(04:24 PM) cheetah55: dang, I wanted him
(04:24 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(04:24 PM) Daniel X: woof!
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(04:25 PM) cheetah55: dave, u quick
(04:25 PM) Buffy_04364: how about a sound check
(04:25 PM) Buffy_04364: from someone
(04:25 PM) Ensign Software: i hear fine
(04:25 PM) Buffy_04364: oh oh someone talking???
(04:25 PM) Ensign Software: dave is
(04:25 PM) cheetah55: yes
(04:25 PM) ppusa: dan was adding each 15 min bar break
(04:25 PM) Daniel X: dang gotta log out
(04:25 PM) Buffy_04364: back in a sec
(04:25 PM) gravestonedoggie: speak on brother
(04:26 PM) Tom_B: y
(04:26 PM) ppusa: retracement bars only or?
(04:27 PM) Buffy_04364: take on a position from a breakout of a retracement bar
(04:27 PM) Gorillatrader: retracement on 15min or 5min?
(04:27 PM) ppusa: regardless it worked well because of the continuing trend
(04:27 PM) ppusa: but adds risk at the lower end
(04:28 PM) Daniel X: thats what i did
(04:28 PM) Buffy_04364: when a trend is cooking can't go wrong in position anywhere
(04:28 PM) Buffy_04364: we do need to have a rule
(04:28 PM) Buffy_04364: 15m in trend doesn't always have any retracement bars
(04:28 PM) gravestonedoggie: one question that came up was what defines a retracement bar... in down trend, is it bar with higher high and higher low... or just a bar that closes higher, etc
(04:28 PM) Daniel X: T-Lo taught me too be aggressive in trends few of them come around these days
(04:29 PM) Buffy_04364: so go to smaller TF 5M and see if there is retracement bar there
(04:29 PM) gravestonedoggie: right
(04:29 PM) jimbo_320: buffy, there have been a surprising amout of good trends recently, but i agree to much chop about
(04:29 PM) Buffy_04364: retracement bar when first posted is down bar in uptrend or up bar in an downtrend
(04:30 PM) Buffy_04364: use the 4-6 bar rule also
(04:30 PM) Dirk-X: Trouble with thay definition occurs when trend bar is very long
(04:30 PM) GGriz: WHAT'S THAT?
(04:30 PM) gravestonedoggie: yes, but she looks to trail stop under rising bars in downtred - so HIGHER LOWS are part of T's technique
(04:30 PM) Gorillatrader: upbar,  is HL for a maximum of 6 bars
(04:30 PM) ppusa: what about that up flag like today?
(04:30 PM) Buffy_04364: just typing what you are saying so part of chat 
(04:30 PM) Tom_B: stops on initial & add brought to second entry stop ?
(04:30 PM) GGriz: tks
(04:30 PM) Buffy_04364: In the retro rules a graphic will be posted
(04:31 PM) gravestonedoggie: the question really is are going to use T defintion of retracement bar, or some other one.. that was question in room
(04:31 PM) Buffy_04364: if you add right tom the stops will be at the last swing high just like retro whould have it normally
(04:31 PM) gravestonedoggie: some of those who advocated other appraoch might speak up
(04:32 PM) Daniel X: whoa 1 at a time
(04:32 PM) gravestonedoggie: go ahead daniel
(04:32 PM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(04:32 PM) Daniel X: hands plz
(04:32 PM) Gorillatrader: ok
(04:32 PM) Daniel X: not me im kewl
(04:32 PM) larrybf: thank you dave
(04:32 PM) Buffy_04364: Teresa definition of what a retracement bar is what Retro would like to go with
(04:32 PM) Owlee123: have q regarding your stops-the initial stop is 5pt, then the swing high/low of the 5 min.  this could go over the 5 pt stop losss 
(04:33 PM) Buffy_04364: stops are meant to be moved in favor of the trade
(04:33 PM) Daniel X: really
(04:33 PM) donsuelo: New to 4-6 rule......are you stopped out after 6 up bars?
(04:33 PM) ppusa: several times there was a stop hit because it was to close.
(04:33 PM) larrybf: no?
(04:33 PM) tangtran: is terressa service using this method to trade. i like to follow someone for a call out possible signal.
(04:33 PM) Daniel X: oh ok
(04:33 PM) Buffy_04364: only tighten stops do not widen them
(04:34 PM) tangtran: i see.  do you do call out possible signal.  i like to be confident with the signal.
(04:34 PM) Buffy_04364: retro trader is Dave's own experiment but I don't think any system will be a perfect fit for everybody - can be modified to your own style
(04:34 PM) gravestonedoggie: yes, a mistake to trade something that does not suit you
(04:34 PM) Zentrader: if in a long trade the trailing stop is 5 points off the highest low within the current trade on the 5 minute chart, correct?
(04:34 PM) Dirk-X: In my testing..5pts was very effective...didn't get shaken and miss many true moves at all
(04:34 PM) Daniel X: ha
(04:34 PM) Daniel X: ditto Dirk
(04:34 PM) Buffy_04364: hesitant to make the calls - don't want to be responsible for others loses
(04:35 PM) gravestonedoggie: good point dave
(04:35 PM) larrybf: dave-do you pay attention to the high/ low figures at 10:30
(04:35 PM) jimbo_320: or taking the kids out for a walk while you're trading .....
(04:35 PM) tangtran: thanx
(04:35 PM) jimbo_320: i wish i could do that
(04:35 PM) elly_34: have u addressed questions from l;ast week yet?
(04:35 PM) Buffy_04364: only the initial stop is 5 pt
(04:36 PM) Buffy_04364: the idea being once in a trade we want to stay with a trend
(04:36 PM) Gorillatrader: 5pt Stops or changes in Premise of trade?
(04:36 PM) hawki: do you move your stops to breakeven if trade in your favour?
(04:36 PM) Buffy_04364: 5pt is a money management stop
(04:36 PM) Buffy_04364: once in the money we don't want to get stopped out unless change in trend
(04:36 PM) Buffy_04364: retro accomplishes that by using swing highs and swing lows
(04:36 PM) Buffy_04364: if they are violated would be a change in trend
(04:37 PM) wayne_53: If a trade went straight up 20 pts then retreated the same you'd have no pivot point to get you out before giving it all back.  How do you alleviate that
(04:37 PM) Gorillatrader: Swing Low defined by HighrLow bars on each side?
(04:37 PM) Buffy_04364: try to exit on profitable stop based on reversal signal
(04:37 PM) Gorillatrader: or 2 HLos?
(04:37 PM) Daniel X: Wayne has a good 1
(04:37 PM) elly_34: yes as in this morning big drop
(04:37 PM) Buffy_04364: no larry retro doesn't
(04:38 PM) Dirk-X: A note on Inside Bars:    I found that using inside bars as exit signals performed much more poorly than simply leaving that rule out
(04:38 PM) tomsurf: dave- believe he's thinking of the 1ST hours range
(04:38 PM) Daniel X: >>>>>>>>Wayne<<<<<<<<<<<has a good 1
(04:38 PM) larrybf: yes- some traders guage big breakouts by the first hour hi/low
(04:38 PM) elly_34: alright
(04:38 PM) Buffy_04364: wayne - go to lower TF until you can see a swing low/high
(04:38 PM) elly_34: agree daniel
(04:38 PM) jimbo_320: retro is great in trends, no question but the areas we need to work on are minisizing risk, that 5point SL is wide (imho)
(04:38 PM) Dirk-X: would be rare
(04:39 PM) Gorillatrader: 20 pts, take it home
(04:39 PM) Buffy_04364: most of the time if there is a reversal signal of some kind you can also use that for exit
(04:39 PM) Buffy_04364: like a 2B or 1323
(04:39 PM) Buffy_04364: spike high followed by inside bar
(04:39 PM) Buffy_04364: are examples
(04:39 PM) wayne_53: thnx
(04:39 PM) Daniel X: most suucessful traders leave alot on the tableWayne
(04:40 PM) Buffy_04364: had a discussion with CJ this morning about the range trading
(04:40 PM) Buffy_04364: since more profitable during trending action
(04:40 PM) Buffy_04364: he suggested we use support and resistance levels 
(04:40 PM) Buffy_04364: or switch to alternative strategies while in the range
(04:40 PM) Buffy_04364: cj is thinking about that
(04:40 PM) larrybf: ok-thanks please explore further
(04:40 PM) Buffy_04364: one of the experts on range trading and scalping
(04:41 PM) larrybf: i hate to piss away profit
(04:41 PM) Buffy_04364: it is exciting to have some rules with cj and retro for range trading
(04:41 PM) Daniel X: i know larry 
(04:41 PM) Daniel X: me too
(04:41 PM) Daniel X: i stay out 
(04:41 PM) Daniel X: yes
(04:41 PM) Buffy_04364: some have suggested best strategy is to stand aside for the range trading
(04:41 PM) Daniel X: use the design 
(04:42 PM) Buffy_04364: research and development continues
(04:42 PM) larrybf: great work thanks
(04:42 PM) tangtran: dave, you have information or suggestion about tactrade service
(04:42 PM) Dirk-X: Take retro's performance after omitting those range periods, and you would retire tomorrow and buy an island
(04:42 PM) elly_34: pls keep it to retro
(04:42 PM) gravestonedoggie: question from last week chats,,,The site posted rule 2 states: "2. Enter long/short on 1 tic breakout from 1st 15m bar using STOP or STOP/LMT order."   Is there a rule regarding a setup off the second bar? 
(04:42 PM) Dirk-X: okay
(04:42 PM) Buffy_04364: as far as other questions posted last week lets answer them
(04:42 PM) gravestonedoggie: Some assume there is, and point to trade 2 on 8/17, which was entered by a stop under the low of the second bar.  Was this trade based on any rule concerning the second bar, per se?  Or was the entry based on a trailing stop under up bars on the 15 min chart after a gap down opening (which occurred on 8/17)? 
(04:43 PM) gravestonedoggie: yes
(04:43 PM) Buffy_04364: aug 23rd charts ? about aug 22 using stop or stop limit order
(04:43 PM) Buffy_04364: there is not a specific rule regarding the second bar
(04:43 PM) gravestonedoggie: quest shown above buffy
(04:43 PM) Buffy_04364: often second bar will be a retracement bar
(04:43 PM) Buffy_04364: ?
(04:44 PM) Buffy_04364: and retro treats it as such
(04:44 PM) gravestonedoggie: right, that's what i thought dave, thnx
(04:44 PM) Buffy_04364: what GSD?
(04:44 PM) Dirk-X: Try adding a "long-tailed doji top or bottom" rule during firs half hour
(04:44 PM) Buffy_04364: about gues
(04:44 PM) Buffy_04364: guest
(04:44 PM) gravestonedoggie: do you want me to psot next question
(04:44 PM) Buffy_04364: Trade two on 8/17
(04:44 PM) gravestonedoggie: right, gotcha
(04:44 PM) Buffy_04364: it was the second bar is up bar in downtrend so rule on retracement bar
(04:44 PM) Dirk-X: Notice that's the doji
(04:44 PM) Tom_B: wasn't there an add off 1st bar
(04:45 PM) tpd773: Just listening, new here, what are you trading, and are you taking buy & short sell, trading signals
(04:45 PM) Buffy_04364: definistion for chop
(04:45 PM) Buffy_04364: retro stands aside after getting stopped out twice in a row
(04:45 PM) jimbo_320: 11.45-1.20
(04:45 PM) Buffy_04364: we are looking for better deffinition
(04:45 PM) Dirk-X: We just have to do the testing and see how it all averages out
(04:45 PM) Buffy_04364: not great for moral to loss 5pts in arow
(04:46 PM) Stocon: use adx
(04:46 PM) Dirk-X: chop will be the subtracting factor
(04:46 PM) Dirk-X: we need to see if it pays off overall
(04:46 PM) Buffy_04364: we have to make sure we are not giving up trading during an emerging trend
(04:46 PM) larrybf: statistically retro has a good win/loss ratio dave
(04:46 PM) Buffy_04364: cj jsuggested if we are trading between a support and resistance level not to trade
(04:47 PM) Buffy_04364: in practice have been using triangle also
(04:47 PM) larrybf: agreed buffy
(04:47 PM) Tom_B: Triangle ques; wht abt 1-2-3's or 2B's inside triangles ?
(04:47 PM) Buffy_04364: if 1st break is a fake out on triangle then it can be profitable
(04:47 PM) Daniel X: Time
(04:48 PM) Dirk-X: 8/16 morning should be the reference example for handling chop
(04:48 PM) Buffy_04364: the ones that are seen whimpy ones give us two/3 pts profit or loss
(04:48 PM) Buffy_04364: ideally retro wouldn't even be in those trades
(04:48 PM) ppusa: nq had an outside down bar one day for the 2nd bar. Caused a system crash!
(04:49 PM) Buffy_04364: even at best it might snag a few point profit but reward not greater than risk
(04:49 PM) Tom_B: so u wud use a 15m bar at extreme of triangle ?
(04:49 PM) rambler_12: i notice chop has narrowing bollenger bands which contain the prices
(04:49 PM) Buffy_04364: 9 trades 3 profitable trade but only one was really profitible as others not much more than breakeven trades
(04:49 PM) Buffy_04364: narrow BB to define chop or trading range
(04:49 PM) Daniel X: that is why i eliminate the 11:30/13:30 tf..small points
(04:50 PM) gravestonedoggie: daniel:    no 2nd bar rule.. 8/17 took 2nd bar because it was a stop under an up bar in a downtrend after gap down
(04:50 PM) Buffy_04364: it is an idea but trying to stick to PA and not indicator rules
(04:50 PM) gravestonedoggie: daniel, you dropped out of pm
(04:50 PM) Buffy_04364: really would prefer if we could come up with a price bases definition
(04:50 PM) Gorillatrader: Range = Hi - Lo of 15m or 5min bars
(04:50 PM) Gorillatrader: 5bar ave
(04:50 PM) Daniel X: thnx GSD
(04:50 PM) Gorillatrader: or use Ave True Range
(04:50 PM) Buffy_04364: gt has suggestion
(04:51 PM) Buffy_04364: that is basically the theory of the first trade
(04:51 PM) Gorillatrader: that defines volatility
(04:51 PM) Buffy_04364: often that will occur during the first 15M
(04:51 PM) Stocon: flat 1 min 20ema
(04:51 PM) Buffy_04364: second bar it usally is ready to bust
(04:51 PM) Buffy_04364: sometimes barely breaks out then reverses
(04:51 PM) Daniel X: i eliminated Trade 1 entirely
(04:52 PM) Buffy_04364: one way to define range is if we get stopped out for a loss then that could be high/low of the range
(04:52 PM) Buffy_04364: along with the first bbar high/low
(04:52 PM) jimbo_320: increased volatily need a smaller timeframe on first trade?
(04:52 PM) Buffy_04364: has been skipped many times when didn't look right or didn't have far to go
(04:52 PM) Daniel X: and go in on the add spot
(04:52 PM) Daniel X: thnx
(04:52 PM) Daniel X: if missed
(04:53 PM) ppusa: yes many times it has been a good trade
(04:53 PM) Buffy_04364: if it is with the trend or counter trend with room before major resistance than take the first trade
(04:54 PM) Gorillatrader: that would be a subjective decision, hard to do by many
(04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: right before vaction, there was one the 1st 15m breakout against the trend and only 5 pts from major resistance
(04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: so it was a long shot
(04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: makes more sense to wait
(04:54 PM) Gorillatrader: GAP trades are tricky, different rules and strategies
(04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: or use smaller TF and use that
(04:54 PM) Gorillatrader: I use a 3min breakout bar sometimes
(04:54 PM) Buffy_04364: pattern that shows
(04:54 PM) Gorillatrader: with tickcharts
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(04:55 PM) Buffy_04364: making notes on rules that need modifications
(04:55 PM) Buffy_04364: opening trades is one
(04:55 PM) Daniel X: 1rst 1/2 hour i stay in 9/3 mode till and if 15 min in same direction
(04:55 PM) elly_34: also could u look into standing aside during lunch?
(04:55 PM) Gorillatrader: many traders just skip opening, trade after 10 or 10:30am
(04:55 PM) Daniel X: good
(04:55 PM) Buffy_04364: as the original idea has a loss too many times
(04:56 PM) Buffy_04364: lunch time does seem to coincide with  a range developing so hopefullly the definition for range trading will cover it
(04:56 PM) Buffy_04364: I know the retro stats the chop trades really ahve a negative effect on retro 
(04:57 PM) Buffy_04364: so if we could elimate those iffy trades it would be good
(04:57 PM) Buffy_04364: should be pretty obvious iffy trade and just need a rule to define that
(04:57 PM) ppusa: Dave i have seen a 5 minute up bar in a steep downtrend that breaks the high of the previous 5 minute up bar by more than 3 ticks (1.5 nq points). Any comments.
(04:57 PM) Buffy_04364: will post my ideas on that and if acceptable to all will make rule
(04:58 PM) Buffy_04364: normally still be in that trade
(04:58 PM) Buffy_04364: just taking out high of previous bar does not stop us out
(04:58 PM) Buffy_04364: would be a cause to look to add to profitable possition
(04:58 PM) Buffy_04364: should not penetrate the swing high
(04:58 PM) ppusa: causing unnecessary stop out while you were gone. Maybe got rules wrong
(04:58 PM) ppusa: yes
(04:58 PM) Buffy_04364: with the new rule of adding positions off smaller tf we would be looking to do it
(04:59 PM) ppusa: i think it was off a 5 minute inside bar
(04:59 PM) Buffy_04364: I think several people thought stops would be moved on each bar and it should of been off swing high/low
(04:59 PM) Buffy_04364: bars can be broken and still have the trend in tact
(04:59 PM) jimbo_320: is rule for the trailing stop on the 15min to be added in steep downtrend?
(05:00 PM) Buffy_04364: there were some days no swing highs and couldn't do stops
(05:00 PM) Buffy_04364: lower
(05:00 PM) gravestonedoggie: hehe
(05:00 PM) Buffy_04364: use the common sense rule is if a no brainer do it
(05:00 PM) Buffy_04364: did use previous bar that day
(05:00 PM) Buffy_04364: first trade since counter trend today
(05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: no swing lows on 5m chart
(05:01 PM) gravestonedoggie: no brainer... as in post -lobotomy
(05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: so dialled down to smaller TF until I found swing low 
(05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: had to go down to 1M
(05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: to find a swing low to adjust stop
(05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: common sense rule 2 or write in rules
(05:01 PM) Daniel X: yes plz 
(05:01 PM) Buffy_04364: ]make it a rule Dave
(05:01 PM) Daniel X: for the newbies
(05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: easier for newbies
(05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: right Daniel
(05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: :-)
(05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: yes
(05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: lower TF
(05:02 PM) Gorillatrader: ok
(05:02 PM) Daniel X: ; - )
(05:02 PM) Owlee123: ok
(05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: this would only be for really long bars right?
(05:02 PM) Buffy_04364: Dave Howard has his hand up
(05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: right
(05:03 PM) Gorillatrader: Common Sense for one is not necessarily for others
(05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: go ahead Howard
(05:03 PM) rambler_12: where do u get it --missed out on common sense
(05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: true also GT
(05:03 PM) Zentrader: Regarding the thought of skipping the first trade came up with the following results of just those trades based on what is posted in the stats:  16 trades total; 6 winners (38%); 10 losers (62%).  The avg. win/avg. loss ratio is 4.18.  The expectancy is a healthy 0.96.  Sample size is small but the preliminary statistics suggest that trading the first trade is profitable.
(05:03 PM) gravestonedoggie: common sense sometimes uncommon
(05:03 PM) tangtran: gt stand for?
(05:03 PM) Buffy_04364: his hand is up
(05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: go ahead
(05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: welcome
(05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: Howard - no comments specifically about retro
(05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: but comments about designing mechanical system
(05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: might help guide how we procede
(05:04 PM) Buffy_04364: process of design and not to retro
(05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: mechanical system has to have mathmetically
(05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: rules based on emotion or common sense or experience that defeats the mechanical system and can not do backtesting
(05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: all rules should boil down to mathematical definition
(05:05 PM) Buffy_04364: 2-be careful of twoo many rules
(05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: 4 would be the max
(05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: any more than that and hard to follow
(05:06 PM) gravestonedoggie: 1 mathematically based rules 2 limit number of rules (probably no more than 4)
(05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: computer would be one to keep track for you
(05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: which is why mathmaticall
(05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: anytime you start to have exception or subset of rules than the complexity has skyrocketed
(05:06 PM) Buffy_04364: third principal
(05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: I don't think you can design mechanical system by committee
(05:07 PM) gravestonedoggie: 3 committe based generation of system problematic, since debate never ends
(05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: I do think a committee will never arrive at a consensus
(05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: the debate would never end and confidence level would never rise
(05:07 PM) Buffy_04364: number 4
(05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: need to maintain a library of charts or data set for back test
(05:08 PM) gravestonedoggie: 4 need databse/archive of test charts
(05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: that would allow change of rule/ definition etc to see if adjustment hinders or helps
(05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: without library you do not have benchmark to evaluate change
(05:08 PM) gravestonedoggie: right, well said
(05:08 PM) Buffy_04364: tweeking might kill the system 
(05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: on a day to day basis
(05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: tweeking should not be done
(05:09 PM) Buffy_04364: should be done on backtesting against the library
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(05:11 PM) Hero1: could any one tell me what the topic is please?
(05:11 PM) Buffy_04364: in spite of comments about common sense rule I think those suggestions do agree with what we are trying to accomplish 
(05:11 PM) Buffy_04364: something that is repeatable and definable
(05:11 PM) Buffy_04364: so bias is not a factor
(05:11 PM) Owlee123: futures trading
(05:11 PM) Buffy_04364: so anybody can read the rules and trade
(05:11 PM) Daniel X: K I S S
(05:11 PM) Buffy_04364: keeping it simple is exactly what retro wants to do
Welcome Msg: Welcome index futures traders and TrendVUE.com alumni.  Today's charts at www.DaCharts.com
WARNING: Any trades posted here are for educational purposes only. Don't take the trades unless you understand them and can take the risk.
(05:14 PM) Buffy_04364: see if others can follow also
(05:14 PM) gravestonedoggie: i think many of the questions last week centered on ambiguites in the rules
(05:14 PM) Buffy_04364: yes it is coaster
(05:14 PM) elly_34: yes GSD
(05:14 PM) EdwardB52: insightful comment DanielX
(05:14 PM) Buffy_04364: the 4th one is one of our big holes right now
(05:15 PM) Daniel X: 123 and 2b subjectivity
(05:15 PM) Buffy_04364: we do not have a programable set of rules that can be back tested
(05:15 PM) gravestonedoggie: yes
(05:15 PM) Buffy_04364: rules maybe too complicated of that
(05:15 PM) Buffy_04364: might be two systems already
(05:15 PM) Buffy_04364: 15m breakout and rest which is reversal and trendfollowing system
(05:15 PM) Gorillatrader: the 15m and 5min basic H-L-C rules are straight forward for coding
(05:15 PM) Buffy_04364: even if only some of it could be programed
(05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: it would be nice to test the different components
(05:16 PM) coaster_9: The beauty of what Retro is trying to do is the combination of 2 time frames 
(05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: to evaluate total system
(05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: anything we can do to test some of the rules in different tF would be a benefit
(05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: yes agree coaster
(05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: thanks you howard for that contribution
(05:16 PM) Buffy_04364: we will be working on those 4 items
(05:17 PM) gravestonedoggie: howard, could you give an example.. say examples of rules from system you have been posting?
(05:17 PM) elly_34: so how to mathematically describe 2 B and 1,2,3?
(05:17 PM) Daniel X: it can be programmed using only the 5 min bars as in 3 X 5 min for reversal signals in the case of lower/higher lows/highs
(05:17 PM) Buffy_04364: that is a good questions and mathematically do a swing low and swing high
(05:18 PM) Buffy_04364: testing rules on data set would be a good idea that howard had
(05:18 PM) Buffy_04364: there are improvements that are to be made
(05:18 PM) ppusa: Dave I have a question about your comment on the one minute swing low
(05:19 PM) ppusa: yes
(05:19 PM) Buffy_04364: next ? in list is regarding rule #6 regarding retracement and that has been answered and graphic will be posted
(05:20 PM) Buffy_04364: next ? was regarding definition of 2b and 123 reversal test
(05:20 PM) Buffy_04364: the graphics are posted on thsoe but there has been ?'s about application of these rules
(05:21 PM) Buffy_04364: a real 2b is a top or bottom after trend so when we use whimpy 2b it can be any test of any swing high/low
(05:21 PM) Buffy_04364: a test of 2 bars ago is called a whimpy 2b
(05:21 PM) Buffy_04364: 123 is a little harder to be nailed down
(05:22 PM) Buffy_04364: the 123 as retro using it has been real breaking a TL then making a lower tlos and then taking out swing high/low and then test of low
(05:22 PM) Buffy_04364: have been tightening stop on 4M bars
(05:23 PM) Buffy_04364: 5M bars in anticipation of  failed 123
(05:23 PM) Buffy_04364: lower high in uptrend and lower low in downtrend
(05:23 PM) amer_68: An aggresive 123
(05:23 PM) Buffy_04364: have been using that for exit signal
(05:24 PM) Buffy_04364: in the future will try to avoid the termonolgy of 123 unless it is a real 123
(05:24 PM) Buffy_04364: will use higher low and lower high instead
(05:24 PM) Buffy_04364: for the 2B instead of calling whimpy 2B maybe call it a failed test
(05:24 PM) Buffy_04364: both are
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: will try to use that deffinition
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: may I speak?
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: to suggest something
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(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: when writing the rules
(05:27 PM) EdwardB52: please summarize briefly what 2B is
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: yes
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: it helps
(05:27 PM) wayne_53: on 1-2-3 when lower high is set inuptrend, where is the exit
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: one more ? that was on site
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: was / about using wider entry stops
(05:27 PM) rambler_12: http://www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com/retrotrader.htm click link ed
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: instead of 1 tick outside first bar would it be beneficial to use 2 or 3 ticks
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: need to back test to decide on this
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: dave???
(05:27 PM) Tom_B: inside bars
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: may I suggest something
(05:27 PM) Buffy_04364: yes
(05:28 PM) rambler_12: y
(05:28 PM) pechin: y
(05:29 PM) Tom_B: IB's
(05:30 PM) rambler_12: start all over from the beginning -- i was late : )
(05:30 PM) Buffy_04364: inside bars Dave
(05:30 PM) rambler_12: lol
(05:31 PM) wayne_53: on 1-2-3 when lower high is set in uptrend, is exit at low of the lower high bar?
(05:31 PM) Buffy_04364: that is a new rule that was added since that is a common reversal since it doesn't fit the other reversales we have
(05:31 PM) Buffy_04364: pretty widely recognized configuration
(05:31 PM) Buffy_04364: spike - inside bar - then failure
(05:32 PM) Buffy_04364: also inside bars on 5m with fakeout then continuation of tend
(05:32 PM) Buffy_04364: we us a 3 tic rule off inside bar
(05:32 PM) Buffy_04364: in range trading where lots of inside bars and reversal not good for retro
(05:32 PM) Tom_B: i think someone did #'s without IB's ?
(05:32 PM) Buffy_04364: trying to develop more data
(05:33 PM) Buffy_04364: and adding them into the  stats until come up with tule to keep us out of chop
(05:33 PM) Daniel X: dont need the bottom or the top just the whole middle
(05:33 PM) Buffy_04364: even if inside bar we do not move stops further away
(05:34 PM) Owlee123: not sure about rule 3- wait for next set up.  is the next set up the breakout of which bar?
(05:34 PM) Daniel X: tighten only
(05:34 PM) Daniel X: good ?
(05:34 PM) Buffy_04364: yes tighten only for the stops
(05:34 PM) Buffy_04364: next set up - main reason for that is we risk 5pts on trade
(05:34 PM) Buffy_04364: without that clarification we might enter the same stop order again
(05:35 PM) Buffy_04364: to avoid that only give each trade one shot aand then wait for next one
(05:35 PM) Owlee123: can u comment on the next set up
(05:36 PM) Buffy_04364: next setup could be up bar in downtrend or down bar in uptrend or inside bar
(05:36 PM) Buffy_04364: sometimes it means we might miss first leg of tend
(05:36 PM) Buffy_04364: trend
(05:36 PM) Buffy_04364: the objective of keep risk low and trying to jump on each trend justifies
(05:37 PM) Buffy_04364: might use add position rule to hopefully have another chance to get on board
(05:37 PM) Owlee123: tks
(05:37 PM) ppusa: What was the swing low that you referred to on the one minute chart. Is it possible to have a swing low after the high was reached?
(05:37 PM) Buffy_04364: I am going to take a break from typing back in a about 2m
(05:37 PM) ppusa: rick
(05:38 PM) ppusa: the only swing low i saw occured on the downside of the top. Is that a swing low?
(05:42 PM) Buffy_04364: not short until 15M
(05:42 PM) Buffy_04364: others using smaller tf got a better enty but that is another system
(05:43 PM) Buffy_04364: +10 using 1M for setting stops I believe
(05:44 PM) Buffy_04364: guess buffy was wrong :-(
(05:44 PM) Buffy_04364: but that is one of the things we are looking for on when to stand aside
(05:45 PM) ppusa: rick
(05:45 PM) Roger Schelling: One comment about that though...doesn't any system need those false alerts?.......the key is system reverse quickly people don't :) FWIW
(05:49 PM) dave_b_quick: lost the first 1/2 of that buffy
(05:49 PM) jimbo_320: the 1500 short had the highest volume bar of the day
(05:50 PM) elly_34: wouldn't u know from the gap down?
(05:50 PM) Gorillatrader: yes, filter with Long Term trend which was down, negated any Long entries
(05:51 PM) elly_34: hello mauro
(05:51 PM) Buffy_04364: welcome 
(05:51 PM) Buffy_04364: we are discussing the system located at www.dacharts_dachart_dacharts_dachart.com
(05:52 PM) Buffy_04364: can not hear you dave
(05:52 PM) Buffy_04364: breaking up
(05:52 PM) Buffy_04364: isit just me?
(05:52 PM) Gorillatrader: gap down could be a "Trap Door" trade for the long side
(05:53 PM) Buffy_04364: true GT
(05:53 PM) Buffy_04364: true Dave
(05:53 PM) Buffy_04364: great job dave and everyone
(05:54 PM) coaster_9: Thanks Dave
(05:54 PM) Buffy_04364: a lot has been accomplished
(05:54 PM) Buffy_04364: I feel
(05:54 PM) Tom_B: tnx Dave & all participants
(05:54 PM) Owlee123: tks dbq
(05:54 PM) tangtran: take care all
(05:54 PM) amer_68: Thanks Dave
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(05:56 PM) donsuelo: Thanks for the mentoring dave buffy gsd et al
(05:56 PM) tangtran: bye
(05:56 PM) rambler_12: thx
(05:56 PM) jimbo_320: thanks and bye all...